Finding Joy & Meaning in Work & Letting Go of “Shoulds” with Leadership & Executive Coach Christine Farrugia | 5
Christine Farrugia: [00:00:00] Find work that feels personally meaningful because it's something that matters to you. And that doesn't even mean it has to be like some big societal good. It can just be something that you deeply care about and that you think the world needs more of.
Julie Cober: Imagine if you were invited to a room filled with a collection of the most diverse, interesting, authentic women in business leadership and entrepreneurship today, sharing their stories of growth, courage, risk, and change. Women who've declared enough is enough. These rules of success I've been asked to follow no longer work for me and frankly, who made them up anyway.
Well, there is such a room and my friend, you're here in it right now. Welcome to “According To Who?”, the go-to podcast for successful women who are ready to question the current status quo, do things differently and rewrite her next chapter.
I'm your host, Julie Cober, former C-Suite corporate executive [00:01:00] turned founder, CEO, and peak performance mindset coach to the female founder on a mission to build, grow, and scale on her own terms. If you're craving more freedom, wellbeing, and true fulfillment both in your work and your life, guess what? You're going to love being in this room.
Hello. Hello everyone. Welcome back to “According To Who?” our new podcast. We're still new where we love to spend time when I call this powerful room celebrating and learning from, and be able to go behind the scenes journeys of the most amazing female founders, leaders, executives that I know. And I am so, so thrilled to bring you our guest today.
I'm gonna tell you more about her in a second. Christine and I have not known each other for very long, honestly, but do you [00:02:00] know those times when you meet somebody in life and I've called it like a divine connection, so you just, you know, energetically right away, like there's some sort of connection.
Christina and I were both at a retreat. We had the same coach and uh, we were in Whistler, Canada and we were in a ballroom on either sides of the ballroom of, and as you do in retreats, we were sharing stories and, and she started to share her story. And I was way on the other side of the room and thought, I have to go meet this woman.
Like, that's my story, right? And I know she said the same thing when we talked and we joke and we basically say, we're like carbon copies of each other. Just a little bit of age difference with me being older anyway. Seriously, though, I think your, her story today is going to hit home for so many people.
It impacted my heart so much because again, it's a version of my story and I can't wait for you to share with it today. 'cause I know that women that are listening, or men or [00:03:00] anyone who's listening, we predominantly have women, but are really gonna resonate and see themself in your story. So, and I believe that so deeply so, and what Christine is done in the world already and what she is continuing to do.
For me, like in my opinion, it's just nothing short of an inspiration. So welcome, Christine. What we always do is we start, I call it the formal part of the podcast, so I'm gonna read like, literally word for word, your bio so everybody knows your background, and then we'll dig into the, the juicy part of the conversation.
Christine Farrugia: Amazing. Okay. So you're to be here.
Julie Cober: Yes. Thank you for coming. I'm, I'm so excited. I knew when I heard your story in Whistler, I'm like, oh, she has to be on the podcast. I hadn't even really finalized the whole podcast yet, so anyway, I'm so glad we can make this work. So, Christine Fa- I'm gonna butcher your last name.
Christine Farrugia: That's okay.
Julie Cober: Say it for us. Say it for us.
Christine Farrugia: Christine Farrugia.
Julie Cober: Farrugia. I, I, I say the G [00:04:00] hard and she's like, no, it's like a j. Anyway. Okay. Christine is a passionate leadership coach and esteemed executive. She has 20 years of real world experience leading teams of up to 300 people at major Canadian companies, including Wealthsimple, Loblaws, and KPMG.
She has successfully pivoted her career in different industries, functional areas, and has now started a coaching business by tapping into the work that brings her energy and joy. She has an MBA from Stanford University's graduate School of Business and is a certified con method coach leveraging peak performance coaching.
Christine helps her clients gain clarity, build confidence, and take action to build a career they love. Well, staying true to who they are. Like who wouldn't? Who doesn't love that? Um, Christine believes that everyone deserves to feel fulfilled in their career through empathetic guidance. She helps people let go of the shoulds.
[00:05:00] I love that. So they can tap into what they truly want in order to create a career and a life that makes them excited to get outta bed every morning. Wow. Welcome, welcome, welcome, my friend Christine. Okay. So we always start, that's the formal part done. So now it's like fireside chat. Grab, grab your chair, pull up your chair, wine, coffee, tea, whatever time of day you're listening.
I always love to start these interviews with you, giving us our guests, giving us just kind of really high level overview of your career up to starting your business. We're gonna dig into your business in a second, but just give, give us a backstory of this beautiful, amazing. Really remarkable career you've had up, up until starting your business.
Can you give us like the journey today?
Christine Farrugia: I'll give you my, I'll give you my journey. So my journey was really, I guess framed by the idea that I've never known what I wanna be when I grow up. Okay. So I like started when I went to [00:06:00] university, I went to Queens University in Canada and I started in life sciences 'cause I thought I wanted to be a doctor.
And then I switched to economics because I was like, well I'll get better grades than I can still do. But I was like an economics major. Taking organic chemistry as a elective because I like didn't wanna close any doors and like maybe I still wanted to go to med school. But I ended up going into the world of business and started my career doing consulting because that's what everyone does who doesn't know what they wanna do.
And you're in business like, let's do consulting then I don't have, or hr. Right. Um, and then when I went to business school, and I know you said I went to Stanford Business School, but I, when I applied to business school, I applied to MBA to get an MBAI applied to teacher's college and I applied to med school, like all at the same time.
Okay. So really, I've never known what I wanna be when I grow up.
Julie Cober: So you still, yeah. You went and got a four year degree and still wasn't sure.
Christine Farrugia: I got a four year degree. I've been working for a couple years. I still wasn't sure.
Julie Cober: Oh, okay. Oh, so you'd gone out to work. Okay.
Christine Farrugia: I’d gone out to work, I'd worked in consulting for two or three years, but I applied right to business school and I was like, well, I like my consulting job, but I don't what else [00:07:00] is out there.
Right, right. Like I've, I've been very privileged to grow up with the mindset, if you could do anything that you want, and I know not everyone grows up with that mentality, you know, through their head. But I did, and then I was always stuck by the paradox of choice. Like, I was like, I can do anything, so what do I wanna do?
Julie Cober: That's actually a good point there actually for two seconds. Like, wow, so many don't have that when they're growing up. But it could be maybe a little bit of a curse too, right? Because we're in these, especially now, kids are even younger. I can do anything. Okay, well what am I supposed to do?
Christine Farrugia: What am I supposed to do? Right? Yeah. And it's better than if I was like, oh, you know, you know, I think when I was younger, in my twenties, I thought. Well, you know, you, you can like be a lawyer, you can be a doctor, you can be a teacher, you can be a nurse, you can be all these things that I, as I've gotten older, and especially in business school, I was like, oh my God.
The world of like, what you can do with your life is even bigger. But after business school, I decided I wanted to work in finance. I went into private equity. I'm like many good MBA students do. And it was the fall of 2008 when I, I graduated in 2008, which is the recession. And so I joined [00:08:00] this brand new private equity firm.
I was supposed to have my first day on their first round of funding closing, and all the funding fell apart in the recession and I, they still hired me, so I spent a year. Oh, okay. I'd say getting to the end of the internet because we were trying to raise money in an environment where there wasn't a lot of money to go around.
Yeah. And so I didn't have a ton of work to do. Then after that I left and I went back to KPMG where I was working before my business, before business school. Moved back to Toronto at the time. 'cause my now husband, uh, and I were dating and I, you know, one of us was gonna move. And then from there I really got into the world of retail because in consulting sometimes you get put on projects, you have no idea, they're not actually what you specialize in.
And I got put on a project with Loblaws when they were trying to acquire Shoppers Drug Mart, which is a big, uh, grocery store chain. An opportunity to do m and a. After we bought this company, I got to do the integration. I got to launch the largest loyalty program and lead. Or co-lead. Oh yeah. The launch of the largest loyalty program in Canada built new –
Julie Cober: Yeah. So for people listening that aren't from Canada, like [00:09:00] these are two behemoths in Canada, like two of the biggest behemoth retailers merged.
Christine Farrugia: Yeah. It was the largest retail transaction at the time. It might have been, yeah. But the largest retail merger at the time got to launch the. Largest loyalty program in Canada, which was an incredible opportunity.
And really, if you'd asked me maybe even six or seven years ago, I feel like I was going to be at that one company for the rest of my career. Oh, okay. I was like, I was like on, I was like a high potential, I was being mentored by our president. I was just like on this sort of like fast track and then the, when the pandemic hit, I was leading this like new team.
We were trying to make the company more customer centric and I, I guess like the thing started shifting and my star started to fall a little bit. And when my stars started to fall, it was like a massive crisis of competence for me.
Julie Cober: Oh my gosh. That happens to a lot of us and it was like.
Christine Farrugia: For me, for me, my career up until this point had been my like entire identity.
Like I'd become a mother, I'm married, I have children. [00:10:00] Oh yeah. Still. Oh yeah. Like the entire root of my self confidence in my identity was my career. And so when things started getting shaky, it really threw me for a loop for a good year or two. I ultimately left and went to Wealthsimple, which is a FinTech and led a big team there.
But that experience when things weren't going well for me is really has was the catalyst to me ultimately starting my business because, oh,
Julie Cober: okay.
Christine Farrugia: What it did was it caused me to actually pause and think about what I wanted, because as I mentioned, my whole career, I've never known what I wanted, but opportunities kept showing up.
And so when opportunities keep showing up and you don't know what you really want, it's really easy just to say yes to the next opportunity that looks good. Yeah. And you know, feels right in that moment, but isn't necessarily what you're meant to do really. Wow.
Julie Cober: Right. And you could say, oh well this is it.
This is the universe. Right. They're handing me this great job. This is what I'm supposed to do. Right. Like a lot of people do that and, and would feel guilty not to. Right,
Christine Farrugia: Exactly. And so if this sort of negative time hadn't happened where I [00:11:00] was feeling a lot of self-doubt, I would not have ended up, I don't think actually starting, like ultimately starting my business because that caused me to like, you know, invest in coaching for myself to become introspective, to figure out all these things.
And what I realized is like. Actually, what I wanted to do was be a coach. But actually, if you'd asked me when I was 22 years old when I wanted to be, I would've said, I wanna be a life coach. But then in the same breath, I would've said, that's not a real job and you can't make any money.
Julie Cober: Yeah. Or, or in the back of your mind you're like, oh my God, I can't tell anyone that.
I can't say, did I say that? I loud.
Christine Farrugia: So that's what I wanna do when I grow up. And so, oh my gosh, my whole life, my friends of co, you know, they sort of jokingly call me their life coach. I'm the person everybody called
Julie Cober: The go-to, go-to person.
Christine Farrugia: I loved mentoring in every job I've ever had. I was like, I'll sign up and mentor. Like.
Julie Cober: well, I mean, leaders are life coaches, let's be clear. Right, They're business coaches and life coaches.
Christine Farrugia: A thousand percent. And so for me it was really like, oh, I've always known what I wanna be. I just didn't allow myself to admit it. So then I started a [00:12:00] business on the side, and so I did it on the side for a couple of years. And then –
Julie Cober: Your coaching business?
Christine Farrugia: My coaching business, yeah.
Julie Cober: Yeah. So you were at Wealthsimple.
Christine Farrugia: Wealthsimple.
Julie Cober: Yeah. Okay. That's very common. Right? Very, very common.
Christine Farrugia: Yeah. Coaching leaders, coaching businesses, and then, you know, the universe gave me an opportunity and I, you know, took it to go full-time into my coaching business about a year ago.
Julie Cober: Amazing. Amazing. So, I think you might have answered this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway just in case. So you've made this decision at some point in this journey you just described, to be, okay, I'm gonna go from being an employee and a really top talent executive at that point. Or to add on to now I'm gonna be an entrepreneur.
Yeah. You said a a minute there, was there an aha, like a literal aha moment, or do you think this was a gradual thing?
Christine Farrugia: It was gradual. It was gradual. 'cause I remember when I was, look, when I was looking to leave Loblaws, I was talking, I remember I was [00:13:00] talking to my friends at like a dinner, like a girl's dinner, and I, they were like, one of them like, you should just be a coach.
Like you should just be a coach. You've always said you kind of wanna do it, like you should be a coach. And I was like, like, no. Like, I was like, that's nice.
Julie Cober: Can we even make money at that?
Christine Farrugia: Yeah. I was like, I like, I'll never make enough money. Like there's no way this kept coming up. And I remember even I had this amazing executive coach, but I was in that role at Loblaws, sort of at this time where things were going poorly.
And I remember thinking in the back of my head, I kind of want your job, but I was like, I couldn't even say it to her because I was embarrassed. Of saying it out loud. Yes. And I told her this story recently and she said, oh no, but you told me it like five years before that this is what you wanted to do.
Julie Cober: Oh, you did?
Christine Farrugia: So I told her before, but then at this moment when it Oh, okay. Right.
Julie Cober: You forgot You told her.
Christine Farrugia: Forgot. I told her and I was like, I can't say this out loud, like this is, this is she, she'll think I'm a joke or she'll think I could never do it or whatever. Uh, and so it was just, it was this gradual realization.
And then I'd signed up for this coaching course, this combat coaching course. And originally my reason for doing it was [00:14:00] to become a better leader. Like, oh, you know, coaching is part of leadership. And then as I was in this course, I was like, this is not like I wanted, I wanna do this.
Julie Cober: You knew. You knew. Um,
Christine Farrugia: I knew that I wanted to do it, but I, it took a while from maybe when I knew to when I could admit it to myself and then to when I could admit it to like other people and I could like say it loud.
Julie Cober: Yeah. Yeah. Because we grew up with the, like you said, the shoulds. Right. And we do, we do what we're told to do. We go to school. I mean, you got these big degrees and you went and had this beautiful career and you're on the, you know, the by all external measures the path of success and you're loving it until it, it's, it's interesting what you just said there, because this is a lot of people's, this was mine as well, but this happens to a lot of people, right?
It's all great until it's not. Woo. And look at that. To me, this is my opinion only, so please don't send me notes or anything, but my opinion and my experience in corporate is they need you until they don't. And you would know that coming outta private equity. [00:15:00] So I always consult with people and say, look, it, if you, if that's the container you wanna work in, it's amazing.
It's great, you know, but just know you're a commodity. And it's not, if you lose your job, it'll be when. It will be, because that's just the way the world works right now. So make sure you have lots of great skills and you know, when you kind of have that perception Yeah. That you know you're gonna give your best and your top talent.
And who knows? A boss changes, a new president comes in a new CEO and everyone changes.
Christine Farrugia: I was, I was ultimately let go. Like I was ultimately let go. I'd already, yeah. Basically been talking to lineup another role. Like I was looking to leave and they, but like I was ultimately let go. That's, and that. What happens, and it's an ego blow and it's the best.
Julie Cober: Well, especially when your identity is so tied to it,
Christine Farrugia: it's an ego blow and it's the best thing that ever happened to me. Like both things can be true. Yes. At the same time.
Julie Cober: Of course. Exactly. And we don't always see the best thing in the beginning, I've had so many people reach back out to me as a head of HR and go, that was the worst day of my life, and now I see the best day of [00:16:00] my life.
Yeah. I knew it would be the best day of their life eventually, but it took time to get that right.
Christine Farrugia: I know it too. You know, I, I coach a lot of folks who've been like, oh, or I, you know, or just have friends who've been through it, and I always am like. It feels really hard now, and you have to feel all the feelings and you're gonna look back on this and be grateful that it happened, but you're not there yet.
Yes. And that's okay.
Julie Cober: Yeah. Not today, but down the road. Exactly. Yeah. So you just mentioned something, so there's a couple of concepts I've been hearing lately that I'd love your feedback on. So, especially with who you coach. So I, and I've been seeing it nonstop, this first one, proof of concept. Proof of concept.
Don't quit your job, make sure there's a proof of concept. You know, do do this, do that work in both wor And I'm thinking, Hmm, I'd love Christine's opinion on this because I'm not sure I agree with that. But maybe at the time I would've coming out of a very big salary mm-hmm. And wondering like, oh my God, okay.
How am I gonna get paid now? But what, what are your thoughts on proof of concept? Should some, the people that are listening, there's women here going like that wanna leave. Yeah. Right. And they have [00:17:00] no idea how to do this. Yeah. What do you say to proof of concept?
Christine Farrugia: So, I mean, I think this is where I feel like it's a very personal thing.
Like I feel like I don't have like a one way philosophy or another. Yeah. Like the work that I do with my clients who are in that same situation. It's like, it's, it's so personal and for some people they could not even imagine like leaving their job without knowing what is next in some iteration or shape or form and like proving out that it's Right, right, right.
And they just could not imagine it. And for other people, until they've sort of like taken off the seatbelt, they can't even think about what's next because they're so all consumed by their job. Right. Whether they hate their job or love their job, they just can't, they don't have the mental bandwidth to be able to like start something on the side or to even be able to think about it.
And they need to take that, you know, 1, 3, 6 months of doing nothing, you know, but Right. Thinking and figuring it out to be able to even conceptualize what's, and
Julie Cober: Almost [00:18:00] decompressing exactly from the job, right? If you are leaving for whatever reason.
Christine Farrugia: It's confidential bandwidth to think about, well, what do I actually want?
Right. Some people like, so that's where I don't really have a, a strong opinion, then I'm like, it's one way or the other. What works for you. And there is no right or wrong way, I'll say for myself in my journey, like I initially had said, okay, I can't leave my job until I've like made a certain amount of money every single month for like five months.
So that I know that when I quit my job, there's like no financial risk. And I think what I did is I honestly like self-sabotage myself. I Oh yeah. So I was like, well, I could never really, like, I could never really get there, right? So it was like you, you know, and I was able to. Like leave with a bit of a package.
So I didn't have to just like walk in one day and quit my job with no income like two weeks later. Right. Which is amazing. And, you know, highly encouraged. Uh, I, if anyone can –
Julie Cober: Well you need some kind of plan. I always say to my clients, maybe if it's an exit package, great. If you're gonna dip into an RSP, whatever you need, we have to live right.
Christine Farrugia: You have to know what you're gonna do. So that two weeks later you're not [00:19:00] panicking and you, you know, you're not worried about how to pay the rent or the mortgage or the daycare bills or whatever.
Julie Cober: We have to pay our bills.
Christine Farrugia: Yeah, you have to pay your bills. But for some people they, they just need a leap of faith. And I find for other people a leap of faith with a plan.
And for other people they need like a proof of concept and they need all these things. And it's really like, what will make you feel empowered to make this voice The one mistake I see people, I mean, mistake is, I hate that word, but the one thing I see people do is I have some people who are like, okay, I just need to get another corporate job because I need like a certain amount.
I need more money in the bank to feel comfortable. And then my question is, well, how much money. Mm. And then they, they don't –
Julie Cober: Nice question.
Christine Farrugia: They don't know. Right. And I don't need to know the number, but they're like, do you have a number? Yeah. Like, do you have a number that you need? And that number is the number?
And they're like, no. And I was like, okay. So then, 'cause sometimes we use that feeling of financial security as a reason to hold ourselves back from doing what we truly believe that we're meant to do, or that we really know deep down that we wanna do. Right? Because we don't have, [00:20:00] you know, X dollars saved in the bank, or we don't have this plan.
Or for me it was like, I don't have, you know, X months of consistent revenue that would equal my salary done. And it's just another reason to not take a risk. And so what I encourage people to do theirs like, well, what's like, like, what's the number?
Julie Cober: Yeah. Like, what can you live on?
Christine Farrugia: Yeah. It's not like that. It's actually not about the number, it's about that feeling. It's just another reason to delay because you're scared.
Julie Cober: Move the goalpost, I call it. Right, exactly. Always moving the goalposts, right? Yeah. So I'm glad you said that. You're right.
Christine Farrugia: What I find interesting, so many people have like a very movable, flexible goalpost.
Julie Cober: Oh yeah.
Christine Farrugia: And then it's never, it will never be enough. You will ne there was never a point in time that you'll feel 100% safe to become an entrepreneur because it is inherently risky. That is,
Julie Cober: exactly, it totally is. And that's where coaching comes in, right? That's where like coaching comes in because that's, the coach is gonna give you the different perspective, all the things that Christine just said, right?
Like, and also, you know, I often, the [00:21:00] women that I coach in this boat. You're right. They're just so afraid to make the leap over. Right. And of course you need a plan. You're not gonna be reckless. Right. But, but yeah, it's a belief thing. And I always say to them, so help me understand, like a lot of them are C-suite executives, you know, MBAs, degrees at the yin yang, like such accomplished careers.
Why do you think you're not gonna succeed as an entrepreneur? Like it's, it's almost in your blood. Yes. It's different. Yes. There's huge amounts of learning. Yes. It's a different identity. But why do you feel like it's not gonna work? Yeah, I ask them to go there. And I'm gonna use your question too, right?
Like, get the number and, because that's more important. That's a belief thing. Oh, a hundred percent. And, and to your point, risk and scare and fear. Right?
Christine Farrugia: It's, and I think it's also, we often use. Like, in my experience, it's often money or safety. Is the reason that people will say as the top reason.
Yeah. But with coaching, when you dig deeper, it's usually not actually about that. No. It's usually about, you know, what [00:22:00] are other people gonna think? What if I fail? Like it's usually actually a much deeper,
Julie Cober: Way deeper.
Christine Farrugia: An identity issue of like, I can't even imagine myself doing that, even though that's what I want.
Yeah. And it's way deeper. But the first reason is like, oh. You know, like the, the mortgage, the bank account.
Julie Cober: Yeah. All the, all the regular things.
Christine Farrugia: Personal job, your, you know. Whatever. And I think, like one thing I didn't tell in my story, but is often I think, important to share is like, I'm the breadwinner in my family.
Like, I think a lot of times, and I like embarrassingly had this belief for a while that the women who started businesses had very, like wealthy husbands or fathers.
Julie Cober: Yes. No, I agree. And everyone's gonna be laughing. I did too.
Christine Farrugia: There was no financial, they weren't really taking a financial risk because like they, yeah.
Julie Cober: I mean, they've got this big paycheck behind them. They can, they can make it work however they want.
Christine Farrugia: Exactly. Like, so my, my husband works, but I significantly outearn him. Like we cannot afford our lifestyle on my husband's income alone.
Julie Cober: Which is not uncommon at all. Which is not uncommon.
Christine Farrugia: But I share it because a lot of [00:23:00] people don't talk about that.
Julie Cober: Yes. And then
Christine Farrugia: they're like, oh. And I think some people have this assumption like, oh, well, you know, yeah. That's nice. But like, I'm sure her husband's fine. Like if they don't
Julie Cober: it's got a safety nest.
Christine Farrugia: Exactly. She doesn't make an income for a couple of years, like. No big deal. No big deal. And like, it's a big deal.
Right? It's a big deal. It's a big deal. So hear that so that other people in that situation don't make, because I, I know I, it's terrible 'cause like as women, that we make these assumptions about other women, but it happens. To do it too. And so it's just, I share that so that if you are listening and you are the breadmaker and you're like, that's nice for her, but like, I could never do that.
Like, I just invite you to question, you know, what's beneath, what's really beneath the fear that is showing up as money. As a money. Yeah.
Julie Cober: And I remember I said that, my dad said this to me when, um, I moved, my husband and I moved for my job to from Toronto to Calgary in early in my career. And, you know, I was humming and hawing.
I was super close to my family and all that. And my dad finally said to [00:24:00] me, Julie, if you hate it, you can come home. And that was it. The decision was done. We were gone. Both my kids were born out there. Wow. As soon as I had that, you can come home, you can leave that job and come back. Would I need a plan And all the things.
Yeah, same. You can go back. If you start entrepreneurship and you decide it's not for you or it's too fearful or blah, blah, blah, go get a job. You'll get another job. A hundred percent. You're skilled. You're skilled. You have skills. There's no way you didn't get to where you were without, you know, so when they finally go, oh yeah, I could, because here's the thing.
We're never safe in corporate either. We both know that we both have experienced the same thing. Like, you're, you're good until you're not. Like, I also lost my job as top talent. Oh yeah. I actually made the suggestion like, you don't really need my bo my salary on the bottom line. It was pri a company I worked for that was owned by private equity.
And of course you're gonna be sold, right. If you're owned by private equity. Why? You know, great idea. Well, I was gone like in four weeks. I didn't expect it that [00:25:00] fast. Yeah. But I kind of, I must have subconsciously wanted it because you must have I would never have put it out there.
Christine Farrugia: Yeah, you must have.
Julie Cober: But the point is, is I lost my job on as top talent.
Yeah. And to your point, it took me three months to decompress. Before I could even think about what the next step was. Right. So anyway, there, just remember, if you're listening, you can do anything you wanna do. You can start your own business. You can try it out. You can not like it. Shut it down and go back to corporate.
You can, yeah. Put a plan in place to leave. You know, we're never gonna, and there's no, or
Christine Farrugia: worse, like I think there's sometimes this, like corporate is better or entrepreneurship is better, and like there's like different, you know, factions, pros and cons to both. Yeah. And I'm for sure, I think those pros and cons to both And like what's right for you in this chapter of your life.
Yes and yes, you can change your mind. In two or three
Julie Cober: tons of people right now are going back to corporate tons right now. Corporate
Christine Farrugia: or you decided little
Julie Cober: tough right now
Christine Farrugia: or you get another corporate job and then you become corporate. Yeah.
Julie Cober: Or consult. [00:26:00] Consult for six months.
Christine Farrugia: Like Yeah.
Julie Cober: Yeah. There's so many options.
Christine Farrugia: There's no right or wrong answer. It's like what is best for you in this chapter of your life? And it doesn't mean that it's permanent. And I always thought, I don't know about you, but when I was graduating from university or business school, like you feel like that first job you get is like gonna make or break
Julie Cober: your report.
Yes. Right? Like, I dunno if any
Christine Farrugia: of you were like, I Oh
Julie Cober: yeah. Oh my God. It was critical. The first job was critical. You didn't put, like,
Christine Farrugia: now in hindsight, you're like, that job didn't matter. Like at all. Yeah.
Julie Cober: Job didn't matter. No, I, I don't even really remember it. Yeah, exactly. Feel the same way.
Christine Farrugia: Now you're like, okay, I would like to do a change in my career, whether that's a new corporate job, a new industry, a new entrepreneur, entrepreneurship, and it's like, this next decision is gonna like, make or break my career.
And I'm like, think back 15, 20 years ago, like,
Julie Cober: yeah.
Christine Farrugia: Was that job, the job? Because nothing is the job that will make or break like your career. It's about what's best for you in this moment and chapter of your life. Exactly. And it's okay to change your mind as Yeah. Your life evolves as you get older, as your family changes, as your [00:27:00] wants and needs and everything changes.
Yeah. That's okay.
Julie Cober: Yeah. And, and in the end, you know, I, I, I'm not gonna say much about this 'cause I don't want to give it any energy, but the whole Coldplay thing that just happened in the end, those are just jobs they held. Yes. Look at Scotty Scheffler who just won the British Open, right. The open. He just did a press conference where he was completely criticized the entire week because he does not identify as a golfer.
I know. He goes, golf is what I do. It's not who I am. I'm like, that is why that man is number one. Exactly. Bingo. Because he's not attached. Your career is not who you are. Yeah. It's what you do. Yes. So if you're a, like Christine and I both were completely identified by our careers. That's when, for me, that's when it went off the rails, because then it was like, well, who am I?
Yeah. Right. And it, it, it, it's a job. I don't care if you're the CEO or a shop sweeper. I say that all the time. It is a job that we, and the relationship is we go and give them our skills and they pay us. [00:28:00] Period. That's it. Yeah. So who else are you Is really where people should be going. Right. So, and who do you, and who do you, the proof of concept is really your own.
Is what Christine is saying here, but yeah. So the other one I'm hearing a lot of, and I'd love, 'cause you're in this boat right now, I'd love your opinion on the first 12 months of, of entrepreneurship. So what does that, what has that looked like for you? And I mean specifically from a mindset perspective.
Christine Farrugia: Okay. Okay. From a mindset perspective, I mean, I'll just be honest, it's like a bit of a rollercoaster. Yeah. Because, right, like what I've learned about myself in the last 12 months, I guess is, is three things. The first is I initially was very bad at being my own boss. And I was not great at creating the structures, the like deadlines, the things that I needed to do to drive my own business.
Uh, you know, I, I was always like, oh, I love to be my own boss and I love the flexibility and like, yeah. Take advantage of any of that. Right. I'm [00:29:00] gonna take the afternoon off, afternoons off and like, I'll pick my kids up at school and I like, and I didn't do any of it. I just like sat at my desk from nine to five.
Like, just like ling, right? Yes. Like going to do all these things. So what it was like. W my first learning was like, I have to figure out what I want this to look like. And then create the structures that allow that to happen. The second thing I learned about myself is that the only wins that mattered to me were financial wins.
Like, it wasn't, it, it wasn't making money that like, as much money as I wanted then it wasn't successful and it was like really learning week to week. Well, like let's celebrate the wins that are happening.
Julie Cober: Yeah.
Christine Farrugia: Oh, Julie invited me on our podcast. Like, that was a win, right? Like, yes.
Julie Cober: It's not all financial.
Christine Farrugia: It's not all financial, but it was so, it was so fascinating. I had a conversation with, um, a friend of mine that I also know from hi as community where we met and I said, people keep asking me how my business is going and I don't like answering the question. And she said, what she said to me, she said, because I said, I don't wanna lie, but I also don't wanna put any [00:30:00] negative energy into the world.
Yes. She's like, when people ask how your business is going, they're not asking how much money you're making.
Julie Cober: Exactly. Exactly. Oh my God, that's a mic drop right there. They're not, they think they're assuming that you're making a ton of money 'cause you already have.
Christine Farrugia: A thousand percent. And I was like, they're not, so she's like, how about you just say like, oh my God, I love working with my clients.
Julie Cober: Yeah. Oh, I feel so fortunate. I can get outta bed in the morning and, you know, whatever your, your logo
Christine Farrugia: again, like I, I, I'm not, it's not like I'm making no money. I'm making money. I'm not yet making as much money as I was before, but I know it's coming. Yes. But yeah, it was like when I was like, oh my God, they're not, like, I literally interpreted that question and even to go further, I interpreted that question through my brain.
Not as are you, how much money are you making? But are you making as much money as you did before? That was the question. Yes.
Julie Cober: Are you as successful
Christine Farrugia: that I, in my brain, right. Which is all my own judgments and everything was topic, that question. And I was like, oh my God, you're right. She's not. 'cause
Julie Cober: what if we, what if we fail?
What will people think? To your point? Right? Like we talk about in my business, the quarterback and the linebackers. And so we all have [00:31:00] a quarterback. That's our core. Core fear.
Christine Farrugia: Yeah.
Julie Cober: And the linebackers, if you think of a football team, they're there to protect that fear. Yeah. Right. And no, it's like there's four in the world.
Yeah. Which I won't say 'cause they're in other podcasts. Right. But we all have one of the four as our core. Yeah. And you know, what, if pe what will people think is a linebacker actually to one of the four? But it's all to do with that. Right? It's abandonment. It's rejection. Mine is different.
Christine Farrugia: I'm not good enough. Like that's mine.
Julie Cober: Yeah, that's one of the four. Not good enough. I'm not good enough.
Christine Farrugia: Like I'm well away. I, I don't even know what your four are, but I know it's,
Julie Cober: that's one of them.
Christine Farrugia: I'm not good enough. And so I know that that's mine. And mine not good enough is money. Like it's just tied, right? Yeah.
Julie Cober: That, that's an external validation that you're good enough, right?
'cause you're making like, as, as the world tells us. That's why we said according to who. Exactly. According to who that says that that has to be our success. Me. That's one of them. Exactly. Exactly. Right. And but if we can keep up with the Joneses and go on the trips and have the cars, and have the cottage and have all the things that we think are gonna make us happy.
Totally. [00:32:00] Which they don't. No, they don't. You can have them and be happy, but they won't make you happy. Yeah, exactly. Not for a long term anyway. Right.
Christine Farrugia: So, and then the third thing I've learned from a mindset perspective in this last year is. People want to help you. So I think like from a mindset perspective, initially I was like, I've got this, like I'm a successful executive.
I can build a business, I can do whatever. But I, it was very much like I, I, I, I need to do it all myself. Yeah. And what I've learned in the last year is like if you ask people for help, they want to help. They actually want, yeah.
Julie Cober: They would love to help you.
Christine Farrugia: People offer to help you. You should ask them for something and like, yes, I've really been it working that muscle of, and not just like even asking for help, asking for their business, asking for like, people want to a referral, asking for a referral, asking for help.
Asking for, Hey, like, I'm doing this thing, would you like to join me? Like, yeah.
Julie Cober: Like that whole, Hey, I'm trying to get visibility. Julie, I'd love, can I come on your podcast?
Christine Farrugia: Yes. Like ask for what you want. And if you don't ask, obviously [00:33:00] nobody will give it to you. If you do ask, they'll –
Julie Cober: Well, they assume that you don't need it 'cause you haven't asked.
Christine Farrugia: Exactly. But if you don't ask, you're not gonna get it. And so just ask. The worst thing they actually say to people, the worst thing is not that they're gonna say no. 'cause they won't say no. They'll just not reply to your email.
Julie Cober: Yes. They'll ghost you.
Christine Farrugia: They'll ghost. Which is like, so they're not even gonna, and if they say no to your face, they'll say it in the nicest possible way.
Julie Cober: Oh, totally. I got a no this morning, it was the kindest email. I'm, I have to write her back just to thank her. It was lovely, but it was a no.
Christine Farrugia: Exactly. And and you're gonna get lots of nos. Exactly. And like, I'm selling services and I get yes, I get nos. And of course it's, it's nothing personal. It's nothing personal.
And so ask like that's been the other mindset shift is like, ask for what you need to be success or for help in whatever way that help. Yes. Be on your podcast. Write about me on your blog. Tag me. Can you repost my LinkedIn post? Can you Yes.
Julie Cober: Like my ins Exactly right.
Christine Farrugia: It doesn't even have to be a big thing, but just ask.
Julie Cober: Yeah, yeah. Every little bit helps. And they're all successes. And that's like [00:34:00] entrepreneurship. I mean, money is, money is the output. Yes. Right? The, the money we earn is the output of getting our mindset where it needs to be. Yes. And that's the same whether you're working in a organization or as an entrepreneur.
Christine Farrugia: Uh, I mean a thousand percent. You can have different examples in the corporate world of like, are you asking for help? Are you asking people to invite you to the meeting? Are you asking to be included in this space?
Julie Cober: Are you at the seat at the table?
Christine Farrugia: You have a seat at the table? Are you sharing your, are you reaching out to someone to share a perspective, to have a coffee chat?
Like right. You can apply those same three lenses that I've had to go through in entrepreneurship. Like you go through the exact same things. Yeah. Incorporate like just in a slightly different way. Become more senior Now you have more control over your time and your schedule. How are whatcha are you gonna do with it?
Like, yeah. All the exact same things like. But I, it's a way of
Julie Cober: being. They're ways of being, right. Exactly.
Christine Farrugia: Exactly. Yeah. And so those are challenges I think that I probably, you know, I've gone through various times as I've got, got more senior in the corporate world and then, you know, going through them again, becoming entrepreneur in a different way.
Julie Cober: Well, that's really interesting and I'm glad you shared [00:35:00] that because it's gonna be super helpful for people listening, because like you just said, the way you summed it up, like they probably are already doing that in corporate, right? We've done that already. We have external evidence. It's just a new con.
I look at them as containers. How do you want to show up every day as the leader that you are? 'cause you know, the, a lot of the women that listen to this podcast are very senior leaders. What container do you wanna do it in? You're doing the same thing. It's just a different container. And to Christine's point, how do you want this to look?
'cause look, it. We didn't leave the 80 hour weeks and then paid twice a month and all of that to do that over here. Yeah, like why wouldn't you just get paid every two weeks if you're gonna do the same thing? Really, most people that I know that leave end up, they want freedom. They want some form. Not so much financial, maybe a bit.
'cause a lot of 'em already have a lot of financial freedom, but more time. Time freedom, right? Because they're the slaves to their, to their jobs and their calendars [00:36:00] and all of that. But this kind of leads me into, I'm gonna set this up a little bit before I ask you the question, but, you know, one of the main reasons I started this podcast, and to a degree, my, my company, my coaching company, um, and Christine's probably got a little bit of this in hers as well, but is because I believe strongly to my core.
Again, this is my belief. Not everyone would maybe agree with me, but I do believe that the way we have been conditioned to achieve and succeed, especially as women, is not conducive to women. It's not conducive. To women, and it's definitely not conducive what I experienced in my career to mothers.
So I'm seeing pockets where this is getting better for sure. Predominantly with women going out and doing their own thing, like the Sarah Blakeley's of the world who are creating their own companies and putting in programs and all the things that are, that help [00:37:00] women be great women, great moms, and great leaders and great executives.
And then also I'm seeing women lead differently within organizations as well. So I'm, I, I feel like there's a bit of a light at the end of the tunnel. And when I say conditioned, I mean this was my conditioning. All the things I said, you know, go get the degrees, go get the jobs, take all the promotions.
But there was an, and you know, I spent a lot of time, and I'm sharing this with the whole audience, like I spent a great deal of time in the last 10 years of my career in corporate and as an entrepreneur. Really checking in with myself and saying, is this in my head? Is this, my story? Is this, is this really happening?
But in my world, there was massive amounts of sacrifice that had to be hap. You know, one of them, I keep a picture on my, my desk. A lot of people know of my daughter when she came out of kindergarten. She's 27 now. I missed that day when she came out because I had to [00:38:00] present a multimillion dollar budget on the same day, and they wouldn't switch the days with me.
I was asking every person I know, switch with me, switch with me one day, said he would, and they wouldn't let it happen on the schedule. That was my choice though. Yeah. Right. I chose that career. I chose, that was the responsibility of my job. So I missed that important day of hers. I keep that picture on my desk now because that's never gonna happen again.
I'm never gonna miss an important day in her life again because of a job. So that's what I mean by conditioning, like not, not balanced, the sacrifice, sacrifices, the travel, all the things. Right. So what I would love you to share with our listeners is the work you're doing in this space with your clients, specifically in two areas.
'cause I think you're experts, you're an expert in these two areas. One is joy. And the other is leadership. So in terms of joy, let's start there. Tell us what you're doing to help your clients find more joy in their work and their life. Yeah. Because a pivot doesn't, we said it, A pivot doesn't [00:39:00] always mean entrepreneurship.
No. Doesn't, a pivot can mean a bazillion things and Christine just feels so strongly that you should love what you're doing. Yeah. Whatever that is. So I'd love to know what you're doing there.
Christine Farrugia: To me, the way that people find joy in their work is that they're work, they're working towards something that actually matters to them deeply.
So, and that doesn't have to be entrepreneurship. Right. That could be that, like I had one client who was a, like C-suite executive in retail. Um, she'd taken a bit of time off and done some consulting, you know, raising her kids when they were little and she really wanted to get back in the workforce, but it like had to, had to be worth it.
Like it had to be worth it for her.
Julie Cober: Yeah.
Christine Farrugia: And so she went in, she's now working at a nonprofit. That is a cause that she cares deeply about, but she's like, I'm actually like going back to like a nine to five, you know, because no job's really nine to five.
Julie Cober: Yeah.
Christine Farrugia: Role in a very senior position. But like, it has to be something that I actually am like deeply,
Julie Cober: it's meaningful to her.
Christine Farrugia: And so it's a deeply, personally meaningful to her, the nonprofit that she wants to work with. Right. Work or other people. Like I have [00:40:00] another client who started a business and took a very large financial risk to start this business. It's not a, it's like a bricks and mortar business that inquires like a lot of investment.
And for him it's a hospitality business. And he was like, we did this whole exercise of like, what are the things in his life that bring him joy? And I do this. Like, what are the things in your life that energize you and bring you joy? That's how I help my clients get to it. But it was like, what he loved was like curating experiences.
Julie Cober: Oh, okay.
Christine Farrugia: For people. And he's, you know, worked in travel and he is done all these things and he is spent most of his career in tech. And it was like, but he loves curating experiences, so now he's building this like membership club for families in New York City. It's fascinating. It's amazing business that he's started.
Julie Cober: And so there's a tech piece that he's probably good at, but that's not the, that's not the, there's really
Christine Farrugia: creating an experience,
Julie Cober: right? Yeah. But he's not, yeah. And he knows he's impacting families in a positive way.
Christine Farrugia: Exactly. Right. And so it's like really, like what is something that brings you joy? And it may not be in your work today, it might be something in your personal life, but what's something that you do that just like, you can't stop talking about, [00:41:00] right?
You can't stop doing when you're doing it. You like, you know, you're in that flow state where you like lose track of time and it's like there's a nugget in there. And maybe it's finding a company that supports that mission or maybe it's starting it yourself. Like it does. I don't believe it's a, it's a binary.
Julie Cober: Either or, yeah,
Christine Farrugia: it's not either or and neither is better.
But like how can you find that? Find work that feels personally meaningful because it's something that matters to you. And that doesn't even mean it has to be like some big societal good. It can just be something that you deeply care about and that you think the world needs more of. Right? And if you find that even when you're writing a performance review or you're doing the things in, in work that, like I always say like you're never gonna like a hundred percent of any job, right?
There's always no 20% of like admin and writing performance reviews, building having difficult conversations. Nobody likes that. Nobody likes that stuff. Nobody likes it. I say if the 80, if you are like, if you're doing it towards something bigger than you, that is something that you care about, you're gonna find more joy [00:42:00] in your work.
Julie Cober: Every single day. I say that all the time to HR leaders too. 'cause imagine, and especially right now, like a lot of their work is not fun, right? In terms of even from COVID on, right? But now there's a lot of job loss happening and. So when I coach HR leaders, I say to them, look at, like, that is part of the job, my friend.
Like, so where, how do you wanna show up in it? A hundred percent. Because it's a thing that's terrible, but we have to do it. So how, and I've had so many people call me back later and goes, you know, I wanted to kill you that day, but you, I now know, like, that was probably probably the most respectful meeting I've been in.
You know, you, you, you know, I mean, it's terrible. It's terrible to tell someone you're losing your job. We know it. We've been on the other end of the table, right? So if you don't have empathy and respect and sitting there listening, not rushing you out and, and all the things, like there's a way to do that, right? So it's almost like about
Christine Farrugia: how are you showing up in those conversations and what's the intention you have and
Julie Cober: yes, the intention, that's what I was thinking,
Christine Farrugia: create the best container for that terrible experience as [00:43:00] possible so that people can even look back and be like. Yeah.
Julie Cober: It was terrible. But she was really good.
Christine Farrugia: But they really treated me with respect to the whole, and
Julie Cober: she was helpful and you know, whatever. Whatever your intention is. I was thinking that when you were talking, that's really what it is. It's what's my intention. Right, exactly. And I'm, I was listening to your answer too, thinking Okay, she had that all the way through with coaching.
Yeah, totally. All the way through. What would I love to do? What, how could I, how, and that's the question. If you're sitting there listening to it, 'cause we do, I do get, attract a lot of coaches. How Just ask. You don't have to have the answer. This is the other thing with ambitious women, right? Like for me personally, and I know a lot of people that I work with, is like, if we don't know the, how we start losing our minds, right?
Very uncomfortable. We need, you don't need to know the how. Just start asking yourself, well what could that look like? You know, I'll ask my clients, well what that, I don't know what it would look like. Well, what if you did know? What would it look like? Well, I don't know. I'm like, well, what if you did?
And they, I forced them to say, well maybe it would be like this. Okay. Right. You know, [00:44:00] just peel back the onion. It doesn't, you don't have to do anything. You don't have to leave, you don't have to do any of that. But yeah, if you really sat and asked like, what would bring me joy? And our, our coach Christine and I's coach would, would say, what would you love?
Christine Farrugia: Yeah.
Julie Cober: It's the same question, right? Love, joy. Those are all the top vibrations. So I love that you're not only doing that for yourself and, and all these years you were, you know, thinking of being a coach, not wanting to admit it. Having people I all
Christine Farrugia: my i'll coach, I'll, I'll do all those things. That, that was my favorite part 'cause I found a way to do that through everything Yes.
I've ever had, and I've had jobs in. Different industries, different functional areas, like everything. But the through line was like building relationships, leading people, and like mentoring, coaching. Yeah. Like that was the through line.
Julie Cober: Well, and that's what the part of this podcast is about, is that a, we say according to who?
Like who says we have to hate our jobs. Who says we have to, uh, do it this way? Yeah. Right. Like, where can you find joy? Even in the job you have [00:45:00] right now, if you know you're not staying there forever? Find joy in it now. Yeah. 'cause you're gonna get more joy brought to you and you'll find the next Right answer.
Christine Farrugia: I always tell. So there's like, I always tell people if they're, especially when they know they wanna make a change, but they're not, they're not ready. Either they're looking for the next job or they're like starting their business, but they're not ready to quit. And I always say like, okay, so. Let's assume you have six to 12 months left where you are.
Julie Cober: Yeah.
Christine Farrugia: Let's, we normally approach work from a perspective of like, what can I do for my company? What can I do for my boss? What can I do for my team? And I'm like, let's switch that and be selfish. What can you get out of this job in the next six months? Who do you wanna meet? What leaders do you wanna learn from?
What projects would you what? What can you learn that you can, it's better, easier for you to learn here than it'll be for you to learn. Yeah.
Julie Cober: Whatever. Totally different perspective, right?
Christine Farrugia: Flip that around and then for the next six months, be like, I'm maximizing Yeah. Opportunity and you'll, you'll show up differently at work versus like, oh my God, here we go in another meeting and whatever.
Julie Cober: Not dragging yourself to work.
Christine Farrugia: I ask this leader for a coffee chat because I would just love to learn. [00:46:00] The way they think about leadership or, I just really wanted to learn more about marketing. So I put my hand up to like do a little side project in marketing 'cause I know that will help me.
Julie Cober: Yeah, exactly.
Or I, I'll go and just, that's taking responsibility too, right? That's taking full responsibility knowing, okay, I can't leave now I've got bills to pay. How can I make the most of this? And believe me, from that, your next step will come.
Christine Farrugia: Oh, a thousand percent.
Julie Cober: A thousand percent. Like the next word.
You know, you'll go on the marketing project and go, my God, I didn't realize I love marketing. And then you'll be off to marketing school or something. Right? Right. Yeah, you'll, that's how it works. But it don't sit in the drudge and the dragging yourself to work and all of that. 'cause you're just gonna attract more of that.
Yeah. Right. A thousand percent. So the other one is leadership. So you know what we talk about here. What I, the work I do is like, again, disrupting this success paradigm, right? This way we've been conditioned to lead and succeed and achieve. So what are you doing in your coaching specifically around [00:47:00] leadership to kind of, you talked about it a little bit.
That's a great example of what you just gave, right? But a different, is there anything you do specifically to help them lead in a different way that's going to probably give them the joy they're looking for?
Christine Farrugia: Yeah, I mean, I think, so the work that I do is really around like, let's. Be really intentional about, and I'm sure you do this, like, it's, it's all identity work.
Yeah. Like what is the kind of leader you actually want to be, not the kind of leader you think you should be. Or not even like, okay, well my boss got, these three people got promoted so I should lead like them because they're the ones who are like being rewarded. But yes, what is your vision for your, the way that you want to lead?
Even if that's not how you lead today, let's be really intentional about creating that vision for your life and your, your leadership moving forward. And then take the baby steps. Like I always say, like, just be 5% more like that today. Like if you wanna be five, be more confident. Be 5% more confident in every single meeting that you're in today.
If you would like to set better [00:48:00] boundaries, you know, with your company. Okay. What's about, what's one boundary you can set and hold? Today. And I think sometimes he thinks it's this like full binary shift of like your right.
Julie Cober: All or nothing. Right.
Christine Farrugia: It's all or nothing. But in my mind it's like, no, just like be just in, just don't reply to emails after 9:00 PM if that's like, if that's
Julie Cober: Yes, yes. And like back it up. It's like intermittent fasting right. Back it up a half hour.
Christine Farrugia: That's the best thing that you can do today. That's, and you'll realize that when you do that, that nothing bad happens in the sky. Fall and Okay, maybe it's eight 30 tomorrow. Yeah. Or next week or next month. But like, let's take those baby steps to define how you wanna lead in a way that feels authentic you and that doesn't feel like the way you think you have to
Julie Cober: Yes.
That we've been conditioned to lead. Right. With the sacrifice and the hustle and grind. And that's interesting because what you're coaching them to do is leadership.
Christine Farrugia: Totally.
Julie Cober: You're showing them say, let's show up as this type of leader. And when they [00:49:00] show up in that, which is integrity. That's leadership.
That's self-leadership, which means that's the key, right? Like if we can't lead ourself, we can't lead anything.
Christine Farrugia: No, 100%. And I think like it's also like what example do you wanna set? Like I, you know, there's a shadow. Every leader casts a shadow, whether you wanna or not, whether you're aware of it or not. You are casting a shadow.
Julie Cober: Most aren't.
Christine Farrugia: And your team is picking up on it. Your company is picking up on it. Like the energy that you're bringing to work, the example that you are setting. Yeah. And the words that you say, like how many times have you been in a meeting? And they're like, well, the CEO, CEO, like whatever the CEO said.
And then everyone just like, oh, okay, well the ceo, oh, we better,
Julie Cober: and now we're off doing this, right Am I'm like, hang on.
Christine Farrugia: Even the whole
Julie Cober: plan is out the window.
Christine Farrugia: But I also think if you're a leader, you also have to, it doesn't, I don't care if you're the CEO or you are a manager. Like if you lead people, other people are gonna be like, oh, well, Christine said
Julie Cober: Exactly.
Christine Farrugia: And so you need to be intentional. Whether you like it or not, about how you were showing up at work because you were casting a [00:50:00] shadow and the example then that you were setting. And so like, one thing I did practically from a leadership perspective when I was in the corporate world and I had kids, is I was like, at the beginning when I had kids, I was like, I, well, I mean, I can't show people that I'm like leaving at four 30 because of, I worked, I had a long commute.
I was like, if I don't leave at four 30, I can't pick my kids up at daycare and all these things.
Julie Cober: Yeah, yeah. These real world issues for mothers real world issues.
Christine Farrugia: And I would like kind of hide it and I'd just be like, oh, like I'm, or I would like sneak out. And then I was like, what am I doing? I'm setting a terrible example.
So then I started being like, oh, I, I gotta go like, yeah, four 30, I gotta pick up my kids, whatever. Like Mondays and Wednesdays are my days to do pickup. So like. I'm leaving. And I was like, doesn't
Julie Cober: imagine the, imagine the res, uh, example you're setting for the women on your team. That's I'm
Christine Farrugia: getting for the other women on my team because so many women and my clients and people that I used to mentor would be like, I don't wanna move up because if I move up I have to work more.
Julie Cober: Exactly. And I was like, that is a
Christine Farrugia: broken paradigm because yes, the way you work changes is you get more senior, but you also have more control over your [00:51:00] time.
Julie Cober: Yeah. You get really laser focused on the time you're there. And believe me, you'll get really done to
Christine Farrugia: break that paradigm of like, the more senior I am, the more that I work.
So if I'm a mom and I, or if I'm anyone and I don't wanna work harder, I shouldn't move up. And I was like, that's not how I want you to think. So let me demonstrate to you as a senior leader, like, I'm leaving at four or four 30 and like, and guess what?
Julie Cober: The work's getting done. Right. Because you're super efficient in the eight hours that you're there.
Christine Farrugia: Well, I'm not apologetic about it, I'm owning. Yeah.
Julie Cober: That's a boundary. Right, exactly.
Christine Farrugia: So how are you showing up and what's the shadow that you wanna cast and like. Think about it intentionally versus just letting it happen. 'cause you're, it's just like your personal brand. You have one, whether you know it or not. Like you have it, you're casting a shadow, whether you know it or not.
Julie Cober: I love that. That's another mic drop casting a shadow, like, and get clear, get present because you are casting a shadow. So figure out which one you're ca what you wanna cast and what you are casting. And then, you know, close the gap if you need to.
A hundred percent. Because if you think you're not, you're wrong. You're not in tune with your team. Oh, totally. Yeah.
Christine Farrugia: And
Julie Cober: that's on a [00:52:00] monthly basis and on
Christine Farrugia: a meeting by meeting basis.
Julie Cober: Yeah. Oh yeah. And see someone, it's really important. Like, so that, that is such a great tip. Like, oh my gosh, we're gonna have to pull this outta the notes because depending on who you are, like, so I'm gonna talk to all my HR people here, right?
Like most HR people. HR leaders, like, listen, you wouldn't go into that field if you weren't a caregiver. You just wouldn't with the stuff we dealt with, right? A lot of Enneagram twos, all the things we are, a lot of them are very humble. They don't think that they're casting a shadow, right? They don't like, oh, that was not my intent to dah, dah, dah, dah.
Get real look at it because you know, you come and you're working and you're humble and you, you have a great team and all the things, but they're still running around doing things because you mentioned something. And you weren't clear on, you know, we don't need to do this till next week, or this is for next month, or, I don't need to see that and edit it one more time, or whatever.
Like, [00:53:00] be really clear on your expectations when you're thinking about shadows.
Christine Farrugia: Oh, and I al I also say a lot to people that I was like, your intention doesn't really matter. It's how it was perceived. Exactly. And I get that your intention makes you feel better. Like, I didn't mean to, I didn't mean for it to be come across that way.
I'm like, okay, that's great. Yeah. It doesn't matter what you meant. It doesn't matter what you meant. This is how it was received. So what can we learn from that? Right? Like, what can we learn from that? Because perception, especially as you get more and more senior, is, is everything.
Julie Cober: Yes.
Christine Farrugia: Exactly. Right. And so how can you be such good tips?
Oh my gosh. Focus on that.
Julie Cober: Okay. So in your role as an entrepreneur, so you're, you're in your first year, you're coming up to the, your first year. Tell us what you think is the scariest thing you did. What's the scariest thing you've taken on in the first year?
Christine Farrugia: Oh, that's a great question. I think the scariest thing that I did has honestly just been like, this sounds so small, but this is actually the scariest thing, which is posting on LinkedIn.
Julie Cober: Oh, that's [00:54:00] huge. I always say get horse outta the barn. Right. People are paralyzed by social media.
Christine Farrugia: That was the scariest. And I still,
Julie Cober: especially LinkedIn, 'cause all your colleagues are on there.
Christine Farrugia: I had Instagram before, before I even left corporate. I had Instagram and it was fine, but it was this nice little account.
Julie Cober: But LinkedIn's the real deal though, right?
Christine Farrugia: Like every single person I professionally know in my entire life is there. They're like, she's doing what? And then I was like posting that I was doing this career change. Was the single scariest thing I, and it was done right at the very beginning of the year, but it was the single scariest thing that I have done.
Julie Cober: It was a week before I could hit send. Yeah. Like my husband, my husband's an entrepreneur and he is like, you have one foot in each of these realms and you gotta figure out where you're gonna put both feet. Like either go back or get in and you gotta shut the back door.
Christine Farrugia: Yeah.
Julie Cober: And that's when he said it.
And so he said that to me on a Monday and I didn't hit send until Friday. Okay. To tell everyone what I was doing. I was terrified.
Christine Farrugia: Maybe my husband read the post like 70, what if I have to go back like my husband read the post so many times, even now when I post sometimes [00:55:00] I'm like, am I really? Like, you can forget sometimes and be like, I'm just posting this on LinkedIn.
And they're like, oh my God. Like, then I run into somebody, like, I run into somebody that I used to, that like used to mentor me and was, anyways, I, who I like, very much respected. And he was like, I just wanted to say like, I really, I like, I love what you've been posting on LinkedIn. It was a compliment. And inside I was like, totally.
I was like, oh my God, you, you were, you're reading it. Like, oh,
Julie Cober: they're reading it. They sure are reading it.
Christine Farrugia: That I was mortified because I was like, oh, so you forget. I know. They actually know. And then you're like, oh. And you know, he's never liked or commented or anything, but I was like, oh, you, you, you read those great.
Like, thank you.
Julie Cober: But inside, and they don't, they don't comment. They don't like, that's really important actually. Like my first, my first 50% of my one-on-one clients when I first started came outta the woodwork on LinkedIn because I was posting about how they were feeling. I knew how they were feeling and how I could help them.
And when they reached out and booked consults with me, I said like, who are you? We don't even know each other. How did they said, oh, I've been watching you for six months. [00:56:00] Oh, of course. But they didn't post, they didn't comment. They did nothing. They're like, we couldn't tell anyone on LinkedIn. We weren't happy in our jobs.
Yes. So they were feeling the same way.
Christine Farrugia: Yeah, for sure. The posts that I make that are about like, you know, feeling unhappy in your job or wanting to make a change, people don't really put comments or like, because they don't on LinkedIn, that shows your network that you liked that or on that. And so, yeah.
Um, for anyone who's posting on LinkedIn, yes. Likes and comments, do not, a lack of likes
Julie Cober: mean anything. It doesn't mean they're not watching you. Yeah.
Christine Farrugia: Does not mean that people are not paying attention and watching and following along and. It might one day buy,
Julie Cober: right? Yeah. And so there you go. That, that, it seems so little, but everybody who's listening to this is gonna go, oh my God.
That's exactly like, how, how am I supposed to a, that's the first question I always get. What am I supposed to say on LinkedIn? Like, how am I supposed to do, because they always have that. Well, what if I have to go back? Well, first of all, everybodys, every single person I have on LinkedIn has congratulated me for starting my own business has congratulated me for taking the risk and doing it.
Do you know how [00:57:00] many people go One day I'm gonna come and ha talk to you because I'm doing it. I if you, if you can do it, I can do it. You're leading for all the things right there. There's not that many that are sitting in corporate loving what they're doing. Right. So they're, they're living vicariously through us, almost most people.
Christine Farrugia: Yeah. Most people's reaction is like, oh my God. Like, that's so amazing. I wish I could do that too.
Julie Cober: Yeah,
Christine Farrugia: that's most people's reaction.
Julie Cober: Most people, especially in hr, it's like the dream. Yeah. An HR leader's dream is to go, go out on our own as a consultant or a coach, because that's what we did in our career.
Christine Farrugia: Right, totally. And my network is like less HR focused than yours. 'cause I didn't work in hr, but like even other people in corporate and other roles, yes. They
Julie Cober: want to. Yeah. It's
Christine Farrugia: like, oh my God, I wish that I could do that. I've only had like a couple of reactions that were what I would say. Not a hundred percent positive.
But I like the line that Hina our coach has, which is just like, uh, someone who's buried their dreams is more than happy to hand you a shovel to bury yours.
Julie Cober: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah.
Christine Farrugia: You know, it's also like, what's, you know, let's just [00:58:00] pause and Yeah. Not take it personally and just, and not view it's projection negative reaction. A reason that you shouldn't go after what you
Julie Cober: Exactly. Exactly. And I, I think to your point, like you've said this whole, through this whole interview, I think that really the key is what is your intention? Yeah. If you stick to your intention when you're posting on LinkedIn, when you're posting on any social media, when you're coaching clients, when you're doing anything, it's the right thing to do.
So know what your intentions are. So tell us now, today. What makes you excited to get outta bed every morning?
Christine Farrugia: That's a great question. What makes me excited now I think is like two things. Like one, I love the clients that I have and that I'm supporting and that I'm working with. And I get like so much joy out of like their progress and them figuring out what they want and them getting a new role or starting a business or whatever.
So rewarding or like, it's so rewarding to like see Our people like be successful and to have a played a small role in helping them, you know? Yeah. To get there. [00:59:00] Yeah. And that like, so deeply satisfying. But I think the other thing is like, I am also just, I have to, I've had to learn so many things.
Like even just like, how do you write a good LinkedIn post? How do you think, like what do I,
Julie Cober: how you launch a website or, or a masterclass or
Christine Farrugia: Exactly like how do I like, have a, how do I have a sales conversation? Like these are all things that I've never. Had to do. And so I'm learning new things all the time.
So Good. Really what motivates me is learning, like at the real end of the day, like helping people and learning are the two things that motivate me. And so in this role, like I'm constantly learning and I'm constantly helping people. Like that's the whole point. And so, uh,
Julie Cober: and so you're growing what you're meant to do.
Christine Farrugia: Exactly. And those, you're not
Julie Cober: meant to stay stagnant, right? I don't think.
Christine Farrugia: And beyond just learning about the hard skills, I'm learning, like I said, like I'm learning how to ask for help. I'm learning. How to set up my day in a way that I want, not just the regular nine to five that I, you know, that most [01:00:00] people have.
I'm like, what do I wanna do? When do I wanna work out and when do I wanna pick up my kids and when do I work?
Julie Cober: 'cause you have full flexibility. That's why most people leave too. They, that's why they look at us and go, okay, you're in the beach on Tuesday afternoon. It's not because we're not working. We just said we're gonna go to the beach with the kids on Tuesday afternoon.
So we work maybe on Sunday.
Christine Farrugia: Exactly. And that, that whole flexibility is, but it's like learning how to take advantage of the flexibility and giving yourself permission. Take advantage of flexibility. Yeah. Because we have to get outta the
Julie Cober: regular routine that we've been used to. Right. Entrepreneurship is definitely
Christine Farrugia: exactly
Julie Cober: the, the most people go to it for freedom.
But yeah, you have to learn how to manage the freedom.
Christine Farrugia: Oh yeah. The freedom. You don't feel the free, at least for me, I, I'll speak everyone. For me, I didn't feel the freedom right away.
Julie Cober: Yeah.
Christine Farrugia: Because it felt like I didn't
Julie Cober: Yeah, you're getting it going.
Christine Farrugia: It was also overwhelming. Like, what? What do you mean? I just like.
Don't work on Wednesdays or like whatever. Yeah, it's really been this summer because I was like, I wanna design, this is my first full summer as an entrepreneur. I wanna design this [01:01:00] summer. Like what am I doing this for if I'm not making the most of the summer? And yes. More time with my kids and going to the cottage more and doing that stuff.
Julie Cober: I saw your posts up working at the cottage and I was like, yes. She's getting it.
Christine Farrugia: And I think like the way I've been designing it is like this question from this book, um, by Dr. Benjamin Hardy about called Be Your Future Self Now, which is like, how do I wanna look back on the summer in 30 years? Yeah. And like my kids are right now, my kids are eight and 11. They're at, they're at peak summer fun.
Julie Cober: Peak fun. This is the time.
Christine Farrugia: And they, you know, and they have their own kids. And what, like, how do I wanna remember? This summer and it's not the city. Yeah. Because that's what they're gonna remember.
Julie Cober: They're gonna remember the cottage, they're gonna remember center island. They're gonna remember the wonderland and the fun outings and Exactly like sleeping in and barbecues and being with mom. Exactly. In the summer
Christine Farrugia: they're gonna remember this.
Julie Cober: They're gonna remember that. Right. So it, it's,
Christine Farrugia: and they're fun. They're not talking to toddling. Yes. They're
Julie Cober: at a fun age. Not my
Christine Farrugia: favorite.
They're at a fun age. So like, how, so like I've, you know, I don't work on Fridays. That's my, my rule for [01:02:00] the summer is I'm not working on s Like
Julie Cober: a lot of entrepreneurs I know they have Fridays off and That's exactly,
Christine Farrugia: and like, let's work from the cottage more and let's do these Yes. So that we can really take advantage of it.
Because I don't have to go to in-person meetings.
Julie Cober: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So it's in the intention again and setting it up. So last question, and this is gonna put you on the spot, but if you were going to write a book about your life, what would you, what would be the title?
Christine Farrugia: Oh my goodness. Um, what would be the title? I don't know. Um, I feel great.
Julie Cober: What comes to mind?
Christine Farrugia: I know, I know. Sorry. My daughter also just got dropped off from camp, so she Oh, did she? Into the house? Um, this is real life. Uh, what would the book be? I think it would just be, oh, she's saying hi. Hi. I love it. I think the book, the title. Should I watch this?
Yes. You should watch that. Um, mom Life, this Real Mom Life. It's Real Life. We're over it according [01:03:00] to who. We're getting a real moment right now. This is our Fireside Chats. Exactly. What would the title be? Is it about, oh, what did she call? She wants to know, like if you were to write a book about my life, what would the title be?
Christine's life. She said Christine's life. Okay. I think it would be the best mom on earth. There you go. Uh, like, I think it would just be where I started, which is just like, let go of the shoulds. Yes. And like live with intention.
Julie Cober: Like let go of the shoulds. Go of the shoulds. There it is. There it is. I'm, I'm pulling book titles outta people.
There go. There we go. I like it. Let go of the shoulds. I love it. Let go of the shoulds. Right? Like we spent a lot of our career because we, we did the shoulds.
Christine Farrugia: Right. Like my life like, like my life. I feel like my life. Exactly.
Julie Cober: That's why we were so connected. Right. I'm like, oh my God. It's another one that's should
Christine Farrugia: with your life.
Julie Cober: Yeah. The podcast. Alright my friend. You're so funny. [01:04:00] See guys, this is what happens. The kids come home from camp, the kids come home from walk. Anyway, this was amazing. You, you like, I don't know how many, we'll pull them outta the show notes and stuff, but you gave us so many mic drops here. There's so much gold for somebody who's thinking, okay, what's the pivot?
And that's why I wanted to have Christine on because it's not necessarily become an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurship is not for everyone. That is for sure. But that doesn't mean you can't pivot into joy and leadership and a job and a life that you love. And that's the work she's doing, right? And that's the work we're all doing, right?
So anyway, I just wanna thank you so much. How can the audience connect with you? What's the best way? Probably LinkedIn, right?
Christine Farrugia: You can follow me on LinkedIn.
Julie Cober: She's not afraid to post over there anymore.
Christine Farrugia: Follow me on LinkedIn. I now post like a few times a week. Uh, you can follow me on Instagram, which is @coachwithchristine. Those would be the two best places to connect.
Julie Cober: Okay. And we'll put your web, we'll put everything in the show notes. We'll put your website as well. 'cause she's got a beautiful website because that you put, um, things on there when they're [01:05:00] coming up, different things you're hosting and stuff up. I do.
Christine does really cool round table, some really cool things she's doing, so definitely follow her over there and we'll put your handles on. So, um,
Christine Farrugia: amazing.
Julie Cober: Everybody can follow you for more of this beautiful information that you're giving.
Christine Farrugia: I'd love to connect with anyone.
Julie Cober: Yeah. Okay, my friend. Thank you so much.
Christine Farrugia: Thank you.
Julie Cober: Thank you so much for choosing to spend your time with us. I hope today's insights have empowered you and given you ideas and tools to start to rewrite your rules of success. If you loved today's episode, please leave us a review and be sure to share it with a friend. And if you'd like to hear more from these trailblazing women, be sure to hit the subscribe button so you never miss out on another powerful episode.
Don't forget to connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram for daily doses of motivation, behind the scenes insights, and to keep the conversation going. For additional resources and strategies, visit juliecober.com [01:06:00] and subscribe to my newsletter where you'll receive life-changing content delivered right to your inbox.
And always remember, you have the ability to create any change you want in your life at any time. You are 100% worthy of living a life that you genuinely love, that's supported by work that you truly enjoy. Keep pushing the boundaries. Question your thoughts. Step into the elevated version of you. And until next time, always be asking yourself “According To Who?”.
According To Who?
