Lisa Unruh: Finding ‘Magic In The Margin’ after a 30-year career | 2
Lisa Unruh: [00:00:00] I was working a certain amount of hours or supposed to, but there were always messages outside of that time. The pivotal moment was when my sister's youngest said to me one day at a family dinner, aunt Lisa, why are you always working?
Julie Cober: Imagine if you were invited to a room filled with a collection of the most diverse, interesting, authentic women in business leadership and entrepreneurship today, sharing their stories of growth, courage, risk, and change, women who've declared enough is enough. These rules of success I've been asked to follow no longer work for me and frankly, who made them up anyway.
Well, there is such a room and my friend, you're here in it right now. Welcome to According To Who, the go-to podcast for successful women who are ready to question the current status quo, do things differently and [00:01:00] rewrite her next chapter.
I'm your host, Julie Cober, former C-Suite corporate executive turned founder, CEO, and peak performance mindset coach to the female founder on a mission to build, grow, and scale on her own terms. If you're craving more freedom, wellbeing, and true fulfillment both in your work and your life, guess what? You're going to love being in this room.
Julie Cober: Hello. Hello everybody. How are you? Welcome to episode number two of “According To Who?”, our new podcast.
I am so excited for today. This is our first guest interview and as you know, if you've listened to episode number one, this is a room where we are spending time with powerful women. We are celebrating them, we are learning from them. We are wanting to share their stories. They're gonna share their behind the scenes journey, like the real kind of [00:02:00] poop that we need to hear, right?
And when, I'm just so thrilled today to introduce to you Lisa Unruh. And when I was putting together this podcast, which by the way, uh, is three years in the making, and that's just me procrastinating and trying to make it perfect and all the things. But when I was putting this together and thought, okay, what, what do I want this podcast to come out to the world like, what, what, what's the purpose of this thing?
I knew that I wanted to invite amazing women that I know that I would call our change makers and culture shifters and trailblazers and risk takers, and doing all of that fearful, right? Feeling the fear and do it anyway. Like women who. It's simply not an option anymore to not love every aspect of their life and to enjoy their work and have that support their life.
Right. So when I was thinking about that, who would, who would I invite? Like Lisa was [00:03:00] number one. Number one, we're gonna dive into her story today. I am just in awe of her. She has made. The biggest, boldest moves and changes in her life, you know, through her life. But particularly since her and I have known each other for what, maybe three or four years now.
Um, but in the last few years, like really big, kind of jump off the cliff type type moves. And I just am in awe of her. I'm in awe of her, how she goes about it, her spirit, how she stops and thinks about things, and you know, just her whole approach, her whole approach to living her life. So. Lisa is someone who really fits kind of the core of our brand where she just knows she's worthy of genuinely loving her life and again, having her work support that, not consume her.
Okay, so we're gonna dive into her story. Welcome, welcome, welcome, Lisa. I'm gonna be a little formal, so this is, you know, according to [00:04:00] who, and especially these interviews, think of fireside chats, right? I want you to grab your tea, grab your coffee, grab your wine, whatever your beverage. Lisa and I have matching.
We have matching water bottles. Thank you Jillian Harris. Anyway, grab your beverage of drink. Pull up your chair, like get super comfy 'cause we're diving in in these interviews. But I'm gonna be a little formal right now 'cause I wanna read your, you her bio. So I'm gonna read this and then we're gonna jump into our conversation.
Okay, so Lisa is known as a details designer and people maximizer to ensure clients feel seen, heard, and understood. And trust me, when we're done today, you're gonna know what that means. Lisa's a university graduate with a background in music education and English. She has channeled her true passion into the realm of leadership and administration with a dedicated career spending 24 years in the nonprofit sector and a combined total of 30 plus years in all roles, she has honed her talents and [00:05:00] skills and executive leadership.
In addition to her formidable nonprofit tenure, Lisa ventured into entrepreneurship establishing several side businesses that encompass event coordination, virtual leadership, administration, client success program direction, social selling and vocal coaching, like talk about diverse, right? In 2023, Lisa earned her certification.
Like if that wasn't enough, right now, she goes and gets a new designation. Certification. As an online business manager from the OBM Leadership Academy, like this woman is a mover and shaker. Always doing stuff. Now as the CEO of her own operations company, Lisa's overarching goal is to optimize efficiency.
Trust me, she's a master at this and effectiveness for individuals and processes alike. And when she's not sitting at her computer making magic for her clients, you can find Lisa wandering the sidewalks of her neighborhood with her two dogs. Who are the [00:06:00] cutest little things you ever saw, and enjoying the company of good friends over a great meal.
Because Lisa's a foodie. Anyway, I want you to know too, before we dive in, I have the absolute honor and pleasure of working with Lisa. So as soon as I heard that, and we're gonna share, you're gonna hear about Lisa's story, but as soon as I got wind that she might be going out on her own and starting this beautiful business that she's created. I, I, was I first in line Lisa?
Lisa Unruh: Yes.
Julie Cober: Or I was at least in the top three.
Lisa Unruh: Yeah. You were.
Julie Cober: I was like, I need to get on her calendar right now. I need to hire this woman because I knew her, like I said, for a few years before that and saw her. In action in another company of someone that we both know. And I just kept thinking every time I saw her, I was like, man, is so and so lucky that she's on her team.
And just the way the care and the attention to detail and the efficiencies and the [00:07:00] strategy, the leadership, the strategy of always like thinking of ways you can do things better or how we could be more efficient and your care and touch with customers. I saw that firsthand. I'm like. This is what I want in my company.
So when she decided to go out and start her own operations business management company I like was on her doorstep immediately. So she now works with me and helps support me in building the Legacy Leadership Academy, which we're doing here. And like we just couldn't do what we do here without Lisa. So I just want everyone to know that, that we work together and I literally pinch myself every single day that I get to work with you.
The most amazing woman that you are. Okay, are you ready? Are you ready to jump in and share your story?
Lisa Unruh: Let's go.
Julie Cober: Okay, so I have some questions here and anyone who knows me, there'll probably be lots of women who've know me from my prior life. I'm a lifelong interviewer coming outta hr, so I can go on tangents. So we'll see.
We'll see how we dig in here. Right. But let, let's [00:08:00] start with, I know I read your bio, but can you give us the listeners kind of like a high level overview of your career, of your entrepreneurial journey, kind of up to starting your business? Like we're gonna dig into your business in a bit. But I just thought it would be great if they had kind of a high level overview of the road you've traveled, kind of to deciding to start your own business. Kind of like a backstory.
Lisa Unruh: For sure. I was thinking about that on my walk with my dogs this morning. 'cause I already got that in and I'm gonna have dinner with friends this evening. So –
Julie Cober: Of course you are.
Lisa Unruh: True to bio. I was thinking back to when I was in university, you know, and when we were growing up, it was go to university, get a nine to five support, you know, your household. And I was on track to become a teacher.
Julie Cober: Oh, okay.
Lisa Unruh: Right. With the music and the English, and I just felt like at the time there were changes happening [00:09:00] in education that I wouldn't be able to be the teacher that I wanted to be. I did apply. I did get accepted and decided not to. You know, go on to Teacher's College.
Came home and within two months was volunteering for my local church. And at the same time, while I was volunteering part-time, I also worked in a dealership in one of our largest group automotive companies here in the area. And that supported my volunteer work, but it also helped me with that customer service.
That was my real first time on the front line, you know, in service departments of varying companies. 'cause this group, you know, went from Chrysler to Mercedes. So you have, you know, a variety, different customers, clientele. Right. And service. No one's coming in really for service 'cause they're happy.
So it's, it's working with them [00:10:00] to make sure that they feel understood that their problem's going to be ultimately solved. You know, and once that opportunity in the nonprofit came to be, I transitioned to full-time, as you know, director of administration. Looking at all of those pieces, you know, from the time people drove into the parking lot to the time that they drove back out.
What was that experience? How could we administratively make that work? And long story short, that went for 24 years in nice multiple churches and then another nonprofit organization specifically serving women. And I knew that there was more, you know, one story within that nonprofit was I was in the communications department. Rose up in that department. My leader left who happened to be [00:11:00] male. I assumed his role and did all of the same things, and the pay was not the same.
Julie Cober: Ah, yeah. Welcome to the world, right?
Lisa Unruh: So I never worked with a grumpy attitude, but it was like, hmm, I don't think that this should be the case.
Julie Cober: Yeah.
Lisa Unruh: So let's keep watching. Let's see what can happen. Transition out of that, we get to COVID, you know? I transitioned out of that, those roles still working with the organization with women, into COVID, and I thought, Hmm, there's something more that I can do. And there was something more, wasn't sure what that was.
I'm not finished learning, was tapped on the shoulder by someone that I knew in the area working for someone across the border. And I started out with. You know, I think it was an hour a week for –
Julie Cober: So across the border being, so Lisa and I are both based in Canada. So this is someone in the US?
Lisa Unruh: Correct.
Julie Cober: Yeah. Okay.
Lisa Unruh: [00:12:00] So –
Julie Cober: Um, and are you in COVID now? Like, this is –
Lisa Unruh: We're in COVID.
Julie Cober: We're in COVID. So we're in lockdown.
Lisa Unruh: Yep.
Julie Cober: Okay.
Lisa Unruh: We're in lockdown. We're messaging via text. Do you wanna start?
Julie Cober: No one's live. No one's, no one knows anyone in real life. Right?
Lisa Unruh: Exactly. Exactly. And so. I had a Zoom interview with this individual, started an hour a week, and over four and a half years that turned to full time.
Right. So I'm not sure how much you want to go into that, but that really is the, I always felt that there was something more, you know, I did a lot of administration because I was good at it.
Julie Cober: Okay. Okay. So, yeah, so that's awesome. So you, you're in your career. COVID hits you. Transition to work for basically an online coach slash, I mean, the online coaching business took off in COVID, like all of us.
I started my business right in that timeframe too. Most of us thought, oh, oh my gosh, we're dead. Right? Like, what's gonna happen? [00:13:00] Meanwhile, that business. Took off because the world was online. The world was home. The world had time on their hands and said, you know what? I'm not living my life the way I've been living and up until now I'm gonna hire a coach.
And, you know, change 'cause they could do it. 'cause you know, they were working online, they didn't have to commute to work and all the things. So I always loved Brendan Bouchard. Who's, you know, personal development guru, been in the industry for 30 years, coaching, leadership, all the things he, he said something about COVID, which I thought was so true in the online coaching business.
If you started in, at the beginning or in the midst of COVID, it's like being on third base. It's like. You know, you're starting on third base in baseball to run home. You don't have to go from home plate all the way around like the other guys did for the last 30 years. That's how lucrative online coaching was, but.
It's a bit of the wild west. Right. It's, it's, you know, we, that's another podcast, but we could, we could say a lot there. So. [00:14:00] So you're up to 2024,
Lisa Unruh: Correct.
Julie Cober: Correct? Okay.
Lisa Unruh: And I think Julie, in all of that, for me. If we know anything about Enneagram, I thought I was a true one. You know, let's get things done.
Let's do it right? Yes. Now in the last number of years, realize I'm actually, which makes sense in Enneagram two. Yeah, wanting to see and hear people, but those wings of the get things done with my checklist on the three, do it right with the number one, and feeling like I can do the administration and I can do those things.
And that's why, you know, I started in that career because I felt like my heart was tugging toward it.
Julie Cober: Yeah, you had both, right?
Lisa Unruh: Right.
Julie Cober: You had the admin side, but you also, what I saw in you. And of course, you're a two. I'm a two as well, right? And I always thought I was a three because I'm highly ambitious. But that's a wing. Right? But I'm [00:15:00] really a two.
Lisa Unruh: Exactly.
Julie Cober: And of course I am. Anyone in HR is a two probably. Right? We're caregivers. But you can't go into that profession and not be a caregiver. But that's what I saw in you. That's where like you, you shine in your customer service. Right? And like really caring about these people.
Wanting them to have an amazing experience in whatever, you know, that particular coaching program or training program. Caring about getting those problems solved and you know, and especially when you're running big businesses, customer you would know from the automotive industry, like stuff happens.
Lisa Unruh: Well it does –
Julie Cober: It's not about not making mistakes, it's about how you fix them.
Lisa Unruh: A hundred percent. And. The reality is, is if we don't have clients and we don't have customers, we don't have a business.
Julie Cober: Exactly.
Lisa Unruh: Right.
Julie Cober: Exactly. You need to do, and that's the space actually that is so quiet. I always say to my clients like, you need to be going above and beyond all the time there.
You want customers for life, we call it. I'm of course they're not gonna be with you for life, but long term, right? [00:16:00] Yes. Like it's so quiet in that space. Right. Really going the extra mile for the customer, so.
So you're in, in working in this company and things are getting, you know, quite busy and quite, you know, you can, you can share a bit there, but when you knew that, you know, okay, I'm, I wanna start this business, would you say that there was a kind of defining moment that you realized, okay, I have to make a change how my work is now unfolding in this new venture that I'm in?
Or not, new-ish now. 'cause you're four plus years into it. How it's unfolding, how it's impacting me, no longer works for me. Like was there a pivot point where you felt Enough is enough?
Lisa Unruh: Uh, for sure. I'm not sure that there was one moment where it was like, that's it. Okay. But there were, you know, a combination of events leading up to it starting in 2023.
I did quite a bit of [00:17:00] travel with this, and every time I would travel, I lost my voice. Oh, so there was a physical reaction to doing the things, and I loved the people that I was working with. I loved the things that I was doing, but that was something to tuck back in my mind. The other piece was I was.
Working a certain amount of hours or supposed to, but there were always messages outside of that time. And maybe Julie, the, the pivotal moment was when my sister's youngest said to me one day at a family dinner, aunt Lisa, why are you always working?
Julie Cober: This is why I asked. Like we think it's like this gra-, and it is gradual as well, but usually there's something where it's like, ugh, upside the head. Right?
Lisa Unruh: So at the time she was 14. A 14-year-old seeing me do that. Always working. I'm sorry I can't come 'cause I have to work this weekend. I'm [00:18:00] sorry, I have to just take this text message.
Julie Cober: Right. So you're not even present when you're with them.
Lisa Unruh: Correct.
Julie Cober: Your phone's blowing up.
Lisa Unruh: Correct. So, you know, I decided last year in May, just a few weeks ago, a year ago, that I was going to take a trip and I booked myself a trip to England and I thought, you know what?
This is going to be the deciding factor how I feel on this trip and walking beside the Thames River. I just felt in my spirit “it's okay to go”.
Julie Cober: Ah, isn't that interesting? So hang on here for a second. So she took time away, got out of the environment, went obviously to a beautiful part of the world, and by herself by the way. Right? First vacation by yourself?
Lisa Unruh: Yes.
Julie Cober: Huge. Like power move. Right. And, and, and ri-, not risk. Um, courage. Courage as a woman to go on a vacation by yourself across the pond [00:19:00] and Saturn her intuition for a week. And actually listen to her heart and her soul.
Lisa Unruh: Sure did. And I need to give props to my sister-in-law. Because she saw, I mean, I'm a planner, so I mean if you wanna see my itinerary, it's beautiful.
Julie Cober: I got it from her. I'm like, okay, I need that trip. I was following you on social media going and she sent it to me, this beautiful little chart and I'm like, okay, we just need to buy the plane tickets.
Lisa Unruh: Yeah, exactly. So, but my sister-in-law said, make sure that you have time and space for things that come up. Yeah. And so I did that and the incredible piece is that my top three experiences from that trip, including the, you know, intuition, the experience of knowing that it's okay. Came in those margin times. So I kind of coined the phrase for myself that the magic is in the margin.
Julie Cober: Okay. Okay. There's a mic drop. The magic is in the margin. That is so [00:20:00] true. The magic is within. It's within every, we say this all the time, Lisa knows this. You have the answer to every question you have within you.
And we spend so much time, especially as women scanning external, right, going out. How, how do I do this? How, oh, you know, and even, you know, I gotta hire a coach. I've gotta listen to this podcast. I've gotta read another book. I've gotta, you know, go on YouTube, all the thing. You have to get quiet, you have to ask good quality questions.
No why? Why is this happening to me? None of that. What do I want? What would I love? That's the number one question we get our clients to ask. And, and there's nothing external to you that's gonna answer that, that comes straight from your heart.
Lisa Unruh: Exactly. And that as I was walking along the Thames River. Was actually the foundation of my decision to leave that unless I was able to create that margin, there wasn't going to be magic for me. Because I didn't have [00:21:00] time to expand. I didn't feel like I had time to really sit and be present. And interestingly, I am a person who kind of chooses a word or an intention for the year.
And my intention last year was presence.
Julie Cober: Ah, yeah, those words are important. And, and when we stick to them, they go within. Right? And then we start kind of scanning, am I present? Am I in presence? And you're not. Right? And then it, and then there's, uh, you're incongruent,
Lisa Unruh: Right. And so if I realized no one was going to create that margin for me unless I did it myself.
Julie Cober: Yeah, exactly. Oh, there's another mic drop. Ladies, like, no one's coming to save us ladies. That's another reason why there's nothing external to you. Yes, you can get support, but these decisions have to come from you. It's your internal personal power.
Lisa Unruh: Right. And I needed to hold that line if I wanted the type of magic that I, you know, desired in my life or desire in my life. I needed to [00:22:00] create and ensure that I was going to have that margin.
Julie Cober: Yes. So desire you deserve. So this is it. This is why I wanted Lisa first, because here she just told you. She knows. She knew intuitively even though she was in a very hectic work situation and was causing even things like losing her voice, that she's worthy to genuinely love every aspect of her life, which we all are by the way.
And that is supported by work that you enjoy, not work that consumes you. So when you get consumed and you're in these rules of success, the hustle, the grind, the compromise, the sacrifice, the working on the weekends, the texting at the family dinner, your phone is blowing up, no boundaries. Nobody's setting the boundaries except us.
That's when we get into, oh my gosh, like the drudge and the, and all the things. So I love that magic in the margins, right? And yeah. So [00:23:00] take the time. Take the time. Like even if you just have to have a staycation. I was just talking to someone this morning. She did a staycation 24 hours in a hotel by herself downtown Toronto.
Lisa Unruh: Amazing.
Julie Cober: She lives like in the burbs, right? She's like, I just needed to think. I'm like, yes, you should do that. Like probably once a quarter. So amazing. So there was kind of, there were some moments, right? There was almost gradual, but then you took time, actually, I feel like you made the moments to let yourself be and feel.
So let me ask this then. So you hit this kind of, or maybe a few moments, you're on this path that you just described and you now are pretty certain, right? That it's safe to go. It's, I need to make this change and it's safe. Now what? Like how did you react from there? You come back from England, you're like, okay, you kind of made this decision.
What were you initially feeling, thinking, like, what mode did you get into [00:24:00] once you said, okay, like this isn't okay anymore and it's safe to do what I wanna do?
Lisa Unruh: It was. As my friend, you know, teaches and has written about, it was a polarity of, you know, both and of confidence and fear.
Julie Cober: Oh yeah. Both sides of the coin.
Both sides of it. And it, and I allowed myself to feel both of those because I didn't have a plan. I knew the things I didn't, I just took
Julie Cober: Good. That's was, yeah. Lisa jumped off the mountain and then built the plane.
Lisa Unruh: Right? Totally. I came back, I tried, I actually tried to stay within my terms, but it just wasn't going to work.
So made that decision. Didn't have clients, knew what I could bring to the table and said, I guess I need, I'd already decided, I guess I need a website. I guess I need all these things. So I [00:25:00] started creating those things and letting a couple of people know that I was going to be, you know, out on my own.
Here's what I could offer, you know, you being one of those people already know what I could bring to the table was super helpful.
Julie Cober: Yes, we, we saw the, the, the handful of people in, in the little circle. We, we kind of saw what was happening and we knew, we knew, all of us would say, like, if she goes on her own, like we're first in line and, but we don't always see that You maybe didn't see that.
And still like, what if nobody, what if I can't get any clients? You know, you're going from, 'cause at that point you were really an intrapreneur, right? Now you're a full blown entrepreneur. Which means. No paycheck. Right. Gotta find, you know, marketing, sales, you know, not just what we're really good at. We have to run a business.
Lisa Unruh: Well, a hundred percent. And I mean, my fear went past the, I need clients to, if I don't bring in any [00:26:00] money, nobody else, my two dogs aren't going to because it's just me in the house.
Julie Cober: Right, right. So you have bills to pay.
Lisa Unruh: I totally do. And I couldn't live in that space anymore. And I said to my closest friends, I will go and work at Starbucks before I will live like that again.
Julie Cober: So, okay. So we gotta stop here for a second. This is super, super important. What she just said. That's a decision, that's internal, that's stepping into your personal power, saying, okay, what's happening over here is not okay with me anymore that I know. I have no idea what over here looks like, but it doesn't matter because I know that I'm resourceful.
I know that I, you know, you've had this long, illustrious career. You have tons of skills. I can go figure this out. So even if, even if someone like Lisa took the leap with, like, some people have to kind of put in a plan more so of transition. [00:27:00]
Financially, Lisa took the leap. Which, you know, either way is not right or wrong, but. That's really powerful when you know that's like you're putting it out into the universe. That's faith. That's what we define as faith, spiritually, right? You're saying, okay, surrender. God, universe, source, take the wheel.
This isn't okay anymore. I'm coming over here. I need your help and to help me figure this out. Like it's, it's important 'cause you have to step into faith.
Lisa Unruh: Yeah.
Julie Cober: Or else you'll stay in the what ifs.
Lisa Unruh: Exactly. And the interesting thing, Julie, is it's, it was so outside of who I have always been. Because I am that first born A-type, I've gotta have my, you know, ducks in the row. I mean, I'm the person who, I'm going across the border to pick up a girlfriend today who's coming to visit. I've already got my passport out. Right. Like I –
Julie Cober: You're organized.
Lisa Unruh: I'm organized. We laugh that if I'm [00:28:00] going on a trip, I pack a week before because I like to have those things organized. Mm-hmm. And to not have a plan. Specifically was outside of that comfort zone, but I just, I knew that the future, Lisa couldn't live in that space anymore.
Julie Cober: Yeah. And, and like we said, like when you make change in life, regardless of what it is, and you know this from other personal changes you've made, it takes trust. It takes courage. It takes fear. Fear, uh, you listen, fear is never leaving us. Fear is a superpower we've been given right in, in our DNA to make sure that we don't get eaten by saber tooth tigers, or we don't go flying off of cliffs and all the things, right?
Not metaphorically, literally. But what I always say about fear is, you know, is it in the driver's seat? In your car? Or is it over in like fear's not [00:29:00] going to leave your car. It'll always be with you. 'cause it's meant to be so the top leaders in the world know it's either in the passenger seat. For me, I've shoved that thing in the trunk, right.
But it drove my car for a long time. Like for me, it took me from the idea of maybe I could do something different than be a corporate executive to actually leaving corporate was 14 years. 14 years lady. Yeah. I don't want, I don't want anyone to wait 14. And I tried a few things, but fear just kept back getting back into the driver's seat.
Like, well, how, how will I support my family? I was the primary income earner. All the things. All the what ifs. So. It is so important. It's, it's scary to take these leaps, but it's so incredibly important. And, and part of the problem, I think is what you're saying here is, um, you know, we spend so much time, we're conditioned, we're conditioned to define success a certain way.
[00:30:00] And so yes, you're a type A, you're very successful, you're organized. Of course you're gonna have a plan, right? But that's like white knuckling. Like to not have a plan is letting go of the wheel, right? But most of us women who spent, successful women we're white knuckling it down the road, right? Like we're jamming square pegs into round holes.
We're making stuff happen regardless if it's aligned to us or not, because we have these rules. Of success, and this is what this podcast is all about, is like it's time to rewrite the rules, hustle, grind, sacrifice, you know, climbing these big mountains to get to the top. What for if you're not happy and fulfilled and jump outta bed in the morning because you get to do what you do every day, which Lisa will probably share what she's now feeling.
What is the point of grinding it all the way up this mountain? Okay, yeah. Maybe we have big paychecks and we can live in big houses and take trips and all the things, but I always love the [00:31:00] Tony Robbins quote. My, one of my favorite quotes is, his definition of failure is getting to the top of your game and being unfulfilled.
And the reason it resonates with me is 'cause that was my life, right? So. In these careers that we build now in businesses that we're building, you know, often we have this definition of, you know, striving for success, usually for many is based on these current beliefs that we have, right? These core beliefs of this is how you have to do it.
So. When you made this kind of big, bold decision to go out and start your own business, you had no idea this was gonna happen. You had no idea how you were gonna get clients. You kind of hoped that some of the people you knew in your network might hire you. Like what did you believe about success at that point, and what did you believe about yourself?
Lisa Unruh: Well, I believed that I had what people need. I believe that I could bring that to their table. I believed that [00:32:00] I could elevate not only their game, but my game as well. You and I just talked about that yesterday, right? There are sometimes in our lives and our business, in our work that we need to do the things that we need to do as long as we leave room for that growth.
So I believed those things about myself and. I just believe there was a different way because I had seen a few people do it. Okay. So I knew that I didn't want success, you know, in a negative way. Or in the way that many people describe it. The success to me was, like you've said, not dreading actually going to bed. Not even the waking up, it's the going to bed.
Julie Cober: ‘cause you have to wake up and do it again tomorrow.
Lisa Unruh: Correct. It's not sitting here at my desk and thinking, when can I go? And it was having those times where I could [00:33:00] get up in the morning, walk my dogs and not be bombarded by messages before I get back.
So I would feel that growing angst, that what am I, you know, as that wing one, what am I not accomplishing? Because when that wing is strong in me. It's the I need to be needed.
Julie Cober: Yes. That's the two. That's the two as well, right?
Lisa Unruh: Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's that I want to be needed. I need to be needed, and I wanna make that difference. But it's an overdone strength, and that becomes the weakness.
Julie Cober: Oh yeah. Right. It's either in growth or not, right? Yeah. Like when there, where there's needing to be needed with no boundaries, that's when you have problems.
Lisa Unruh: Totally. So –
Julie Cober: 'cause you're now everybody outside of you is more important than yourself.
Lisa Unruh: Exactly. And I didn't want someone else to define what success looked like for me.
Julie Cober: Right. Was that the case before that?
Lisa Unruh: It was, only because, you know. I grew up in a household [00:34:00] that, you know, it was nine to five, and get that constant paycheck and get that salary and get those benefits and put away for retirement, you know, and you know, then working in an environment where it was never enough.
Julie Cober: Yeah. And that's, that's so interesting that you say that because that's what stops most people. And why wouldn't it be we have been con-, this is the patriarch actually, patriarchy like the work, the world of work in the world. But you know, we live in North America, was set up. To have people on the line.
Right. To have people do the work. And so of course we've seen it generation over gener-. You go to work, you get a, you know, get a paycheck, support your family, pay your bills, you know, work for 40 years, retire, hopefully you're healthy for a few, all the things. And that's what I'm saying, like now.
And I was that way too, like 28 years in corporate. I remember sitting in my office looking out the window saying like, who said that's where, [00:35:00] according to who comes from, I'm like. Do you know the concept of retirement has just come into being in like the forties? 1940s. Like they didn't retire before that.
No, people worked until they died. Now you don't wanna be that either, but you know, and then so we could go into all of that because that's like all around the banks and all around the retirement products and all the things, and we've just, we're so conditioned. To believe this is the way it has to be.
And it's all identity, right? And so that's, I wonder too, 'cause I know when I, I struggled so much in the first year of my business. You like took off. I struggled. I had clients and everything was great that way, but I was like, why is this field this way? And I realized at the end of the first year, I was trying to run my business as a corporate executive with the identity of an employee.
Versus the identity of an entrepreneur, which by the way, anyone who's listening complete opposites. So [00:36:00] did you find any of that when you started? Like, did it, was there identity shifts that had to happen here? Was there beliefs that were not serving you? Let's say, let's try that.
Lisa Unruh: Well, I think the, you know, your business has to be a certain way.
You have to grow it a certain way. You have to know it all before you go in. I was just like, I'm gonna figure it out. You know, and I think this is an important piece too. We've all been a part of communities, you know, a lot of people are a part of masterminds. I've got a community of people who, that I'm gonna have dinner with this evening that are some of the smartest people I know.
Julie Cober: So, yeah, that's important to get into community.
Lisa Unruh: Right? To get into community. They aren't a part of the same business that I am, but I bounce ideas off of them and you know, they share their experience. And so for me that was more important than doing it, you know, 1, 2, 3 A, [00:37:00] B, C. And he idea. I wanna circle back just for one second. More isn't always bad.
Julie Cober: Yeah, yeah.
Lisa Unruh: It's not always bad. I just didn't want the perspective or the mindset that I needed more to be successful.
Julie Cober: Right. Yeah. More is a construct? Like success is success. We, we define it. It's good success, it's bad success. Like everybody's got these oppi, their, their assumptions, their opinions, right? Like, success is just success. So whoever's listening or watching this, like make it for yourself.
Lisa Unruh: A hundred percent.
Julie Cober: Like whatever is your success, is your success, and that's a hundred percent okay. You don't have to follow these rules that everybody tells us we have to do, but what Lisa just said is huge, like, especially as entrepreneurs, 'cause it's, it can be lonely, especially when we're online, right?
We don't have a [00:38:00] lot. Now it's getting better and with COVID, like nobody was interacting anyway live, but get into some kind of community, whether it's another women's group of all, you know, people that are building businesses. Maybe you want to go to events where people are, are ahead of you, couple years ahead of you, and they can share all the pitfall.
Like yeah, get around. You never wanna be the smartest person in the room. Always learning like Lisa said. But yeah, community is huge, right? Because. You have people to bounce ideas off, maybe, maybe create your own, um, mastermind, you know, a group of people where you can get together. And I've had a few of those coming out of some different groups that I've been in and, and beyond the group we're done with that coaching group and we stay together because right.
You need to bounce ideas off of people. And, and, and Lisa's right. You don't, there's no right or wrong way to do it. That's that's somebody's putting a meaning to it.
Lisa Unruh: Right? And I mean, one of the people who will be at my table this evening, he's started a business, but he coined the phrase, start [00:39:00] by starting.
Julie Cober: Yes. Get the horse out of the barn.
Lisa Unruh: A hundred percent.
Julie Cober: That's my saying. Yeah.
Lisa Unruh: Exactly. So if I hadn't made that decision to move, I'd still be there.
Julie Cober: Yes. And, and as we know, I'm actually, you maybe have listened to episode number one where I shared my story and we'll have more women who come on because, you know, some of us, a boulder had to roll over us before we kind of woke up and we got sick.
So if you're going to stay. At the very least, find something you enjoy, right? If you, and this isn't always about going out and starting your own business, that's not for everybody, right? But you certainly shouldn't stay in a job that's not fulfilling you and not that you don't enjoy, right? Because you can find another job.
I'm certain like everybody's got skillsets. They just don't know how. They've got them self convinced that they're trapped, that they can't make the move. They can't make the change, the market's not great, all the things. But you can, you might [00:40:00] have to put a plan in place and that's fine and some steps.
But yeah, don't stay stuck.
Lisa Unruh: I am thinking back to when I met with my financial advisor. It was just a, uh, over a year ago, and he said, instead of talking about the numbers, we're gonna talk about the life that you want in retirement.
Julie Cober: Yes, yes.
Lisa Unruh: Right. So I've already had that conversation about the life I want to have in retirement. Which informed what I was going to be putting away every month towards that life. You know? And use those same principles. What kind of life do I want? Who do I want to be in this chapter, right? We're in our fifties, right?
Julie Cober: We're in this chapter. Yeah. We're, the last chapter. Not last, but you know what I mean. We're getting into the higher chapters.
Lisa Unruh: Higher chapters, not the last. I’m not done.
Julie Cober: Not last, higher chapters.
Lisa Unruh: We’re just getting started. Who do we want to be?
Julie Cober: Yes. We're just getting started. Exactly. That's a podcast right there.
Lisa Unruh: Right? Who do we want [00:41:00] to be? How do we want to orchestrate our lives? Yes. Right?
Julie Cober: That's a very smart financial planner because yeah. Like, you know, people who know me who maybe are listening, like, and I have friends, like, so I'm, I'm 58, so I have lots of friends that are in their late fifties, into their sixties.
You know, I have two older brothers. Getting ready to retire, all the things. And people said to me, are you nuts? Like, whatcha are you doing starting this business? I started this business when I was 53, just about 53. What are you doing? Like, are you nuts? You're leaving this high paying job and dah, dah, dah, dah.
And now this is when you know, this is, I'll give you a little tidbit on identity shift now. I don't wanna retire. And they're like, what are you, like, how long are you gonna do this? Like, you know, the whole construct into retirement. I'm like, I don't wanna retire. I, I, right now, today, I wanna do this for as long as I can.
I love it. I'm [00:42:00] fulfilled. I run into my office every morning helping women soar and make change and go into their next chapters and figure out what they wanna do with their life. All those things. Maybe I won't do it as much when I'm whatever in my late sixties, but why would I stop making impact in the world?
Like what? I don't understand this construct anymore. Okay, you're supposed to work for 40 years, hopefully you love your job, most don't. Then you re get to retire, and then what do you do? Then what do you do? And this is why, like I know a lot of people who have retired and they've been very fearful to retire, mainly because they, you know, not having the paycheck, but they say, well, what am I gonna do with my time?
Now? A lot of them, you know, start kicking up golf and pickleball and they fill their days, which is great, but like, we're not meant to just stop. So just, I'm challenging on this and I didn't even know this conversation was gonna go this way, but I would challenge you all, like start thinking about like [00:43:00] if you're dying to get to retirement so you don't have to work, there's something wrong with that.
Right? So I hope that's, you know, people can move outta that and, but yes, if you want to stop working and maybe do some other things, we're not meant to just not do anything when we hit 65. Right. And I think that's what Lisa and her financial planner, smart financial planner were talking about.
Okay. So we're gonna have women and men listening to this podcast who are. Close to are in the midst of these defining moments, right? Where they're like, oh my gosh, okay, something has to change. I'm made for more. This is not serving me anymore. I have to make a pivot. All the things, right? But she could be stuck in those what ifs and the fear.
How am I gonna get paid and how am I gonna pay my bills, and all the things, you know, those doubts being the good girl. We didn't even get into that here. That's a podcast on its own. We're gonna have to have Lisa back because her and I have talked about this. Right. That's [00:44:00] the rules of success la-, by the way, most pe-, right ladies, is that we we're, we have to be the good girl.
Especially Enneagram twos. We're the good girls. Right. We don't cause a a fuss. So you know how she's feeling. And she's listening right now. What advice can you give her and what can you leave her with today?
Lisa Unruh: Hmm. I think, and I gave myself this advice, was to find something not only in myself but outside to settle my soul.
Julie Cober: Oh, oh my gosh. Wow. Settle my soul.
Lisa Unruh: Right? Because I mean, the same reason that I didn't go into teaching and went into nonprofit work. It needed to be soul fulfilling. It needed to be soul growing and soul enhancing. And when it's soul sucking, it's terrible.
Julie Cober: Oh [00:45:00] my gosh.
Lisa Unruh: The dread –
Julie Cober: Listen to that ladies. That was how I described it. I talked to a therapist, she said, gimme a word. I go soul sucking. She's like, you need to get out.
Lisa Unruh: Right.
Julie Cober: We're not meant to live this way.
Lisa Unruh: We aren't. So pivotal for my life over the last number of years has been practicing yoga with someone who's literally around the corner that I found, um, my neighbor sent their contact to me and I've been going for sessions with her, private sessions since April of 2022.
Julie Cober: Super important.
Lisa Unruh: 2023. April, 2023. And at the end of her yoga session, she always does sound bowl.
Julie Cober: Oh, okay. Yeah.
Lisa Unruh: And for me, my brain is always going. I always want to be active, you know, I'm great. When I'm lazy, I'm great. But generally when I'm upright, the brain is always [00:46:00] going. What do I have to do? What's on my list? Have I checked it all off? And these sessions really led me through that being present.
Julie Cober: Mm. Back to your word presence.
Lisa Unruh: Right. And she always says, she even said it in my session yesterday. What's happened has already happened. Anything that is coming will still be there when you are done. Let's practice being here now.
Julie Cober: So like seriously, we have nothing but the present.
Lisa Unruh: Right? And so when I was able to actually allow myself to get there. And I see things in pictures, I could see, Hmm, I'm gonna try not to cry.
Julie Cober: Oh, I didn't wanna make you cry.
Lisa Unruh: It's okay.
Julie Cober: You cry here on this podcast, ladies.
Lisa Unruh: It's all good. But I could see like people in my future I could see.
Julie Cober: Yes. And then you felt it.
Lisa Unruh: I felt it. And a recurring theme that comes back is [00:47:00] being in a field. And for me, that's freedom.
Julie Cober: Oh, beautiful.
Lisa Unruh: Right? And it's just being able to have those deep breaths.
Julie Cober: Yeah, so, so center, ground, get the modalities that work for you. For Lisa, it's yoga, imagination, all the things. Right? Do you know everyone's different, but it's all going within.
Lisa Unruh: And it's a practice and a discipline, right? Because my, in my natural state. I am go, go, go. I am. You know, get the passport out the day before.
Julie Cober: Yeah. You do that with your eyes closed. So now you have to take, you have to be very conscious of slowing down and being present and being grounded.
Lisa Unruh: Right. And then it becomes almost natural.
Julie Cober: Yeah. That's the practice. Exactly.
Lisa Unruh: Right? It becomes that, that –
Julie Cober: You don't have to think about it like, or, or when you don't do it, you're feeling really off. And so that's when you know.
Lisa Unruh: That's the advice, right? Find that place where you can settle your soul and where things that bump up against, [00:48:00] you know, unsettling it. It's no longer okay.
Julie Cober: Yeah. And they almost like bounce off.
Lisa Unruh: Exactly. I, I worked with my executive director in the last nonprofit organization would say, you know, she used to say. I'm not going to partner with that any longer.
Julie Cober: Yes, it's a choice, right? Oh my God, that's a whole nother podcast. Oh my God. I can't even wait for this podcast. Yeah, like, so. Okay. That was beautiful. Thank you so much, Lisa, for sharing your story. I know that this is gonna impact many, many people when they hear this, and as, as we know, podcasts live on forever, which is beautiful.
How can people get in touch with you? How can they follow you? How can they learn about you If they, either they need an OBM and going, oh my God, I need her in my business. Or they just maybe wanna get to know you more.
Lisa Unruh: For sure. Well, you can follow me on LinkedIn. It's Lisa Unruh my name, or you can find me at my website. There's a contact form there at yourfractionalobm.com.
Julie Cober: Awesome. Okay, and so what we'll do is we'll get [00:49:00] all your handles and we'll put them in the show notes for everybody.
Lisa Unruh: Amazing.
Julie Cober: And yeah, so if you resonated with Lisa's story, if you need an OBM or you just wanna talk about getting more efficient in your business or her trip to England, you can get her itinerary. Reach out to her. 'cause she's an amazing, amazing person for you to have in your network.
Lisa Unruh: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Julie Cober: Alright my friend. Thank you so much. This was so great.
Lisa Unruh: Thank you.
Julie Cober: All right-y.
Julie Cober: Thank you so much for choosing to spend your time with us. I hope today's insights have empowered you and given you ideas and tools to start to rewrite your rules of success. If you loved today's episode, please leave us a review and be sure to share it with a friend. And if you'd like to hear more from these trailblazing women, be sure to hit the subscribe button so you never miss out on another powerful episode.
Don't forget to connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram for daily doses of motivation behind the scenes insight and to keep the conversation going. [00:50:00] For additional resources and strategies, visit juliecober.com and subscribe to my newsletter where you'll receive life-changing content delivered right to your inbox.
And always remember you have the ability to create any change you want in your life at any time. You are 100% worthy of living a life that you genuinely love that's supported by work that you truly enjoy. Keep pushing the boundaries. Question your thoughts. Step into the elevated version of you, and until next time, always be asking yourself “According To Who?”.
According To Who?
